Statue wars - Cecil Rhodes again.



I know the academics at the College well and they are very much caught up in the middle of this. Regardless, Leaking the decision at exam time was a poor move. The JCR now need to come to a concensus.
 

Rick O Shea

Striker
I live in Durham. Over the last few years we've had the new DLI bugler statue put up, and the Tommy sculpture at Seaham

People are putting statues up, not taking them down
And what happens in a couple of hundred years when someone decides us crushing Nazi Germany was a bit too aggressive - will those statues have to come down?

We can't airbrush history - we have to learn from the past.
 
Still not been to see that, really should make the effort.

It's brilliant.
And what happens in a couple of hundred years when someone decides us crushing Nazi Germany was a bit too aggressive - will those statues have to come down?

We can't airbrush history - we have to learn from the past.

I am sorry but this is daft

Each generation writes it's own history books, comes up with it's own interpretation of the past. They find new sources, new perspectives. New events take place which make us think differently about what happened before. - for example the credit crunch inspired lots of new historical writing about the wall street crash and the great depression.

I am sure that one day a generation will come along which will want to challenge our views of WW2, and I hope I live long enough to read those books

Challenging old ideas and kicking over yesterdays statues is exactly what history is all about. Once you try and impose a single interpretation on the events of the past you destroy the historical process, and a nation that cannot look at the past with a critical eye is in a bad place intellectually.

And after all .... that interpretation of the past would be no more outrageous than the one you have just put forward.

We didn't crush Nazi Germany. We fought bravely, but the people who crushed the Nazi war machine was the Red Army. The Americans and ourselves helped a lot, but we didn't crush Nazi Germany and anyone putting statues up to claim that we did is an idiot.
 
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JonJon

Central Defender
And what happens in a couple of hundred years when someone decides us crushing Nazi Germany was a bit too aggressive - will those statues have to come down?

We can't airbrush history - we have to learn from the past.
But are statues the only way we learn history, or from the past?

Arguably by idolising inanimate objects we're not learning or moving on at all?
 

PTR

Striker
People pull down statues and the right wing mod scream "you can't just do that, you have to follow all the proper processes"

People follow all the proper processes, and those in charge decide they literally can not be arsed to do the paperwork.

So, back to the original idea then. Fuck 'em.
But are statues the only way we learn history, or from the past?
Arguably by idolising inanimate objects we're not learning or moving on at all?
I'd never have heard of Hitler, Mother (shithouse Theresa) and of any war if not for the statues....

Its a total bullshit argument. Statues (of these types) are often tribute to great people. When culture changes, and we change our views of those "great" actions, then its quite right to remove the statue.
 
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safc9450

Midfield
Best place to do that is to put Cecil in a museum with the Coulson statue imo.
Why ? Do you anything about him,history,achievements ?
It's brilliant.


I am sorry but this is daft

Each generation writes it's own history books, comes up with it's own interpretation of the past. They find new sources, new perspectives. New events take place which make us think differently about what happened before. - for example the credit crunch inspired lots of new historical writing about the wall street crash and the great depression.

I am sure that one day a generation will come along which will want to challenge our views of WW2, and I hope I live long enough to read those books

Challenging old ideas and kicking over yesterdays statues is exactly what history is all about. Once you try and impose a single interpretation on the events of the past you destroy the historical process, and a nation that cannot look at the past with a critical eye is in a bad place intellectually.

And after all .... that interpretation of the past would be no more outrageous than the one you have just put forward.

We didn't crush Nazi Germany. We fought bravely, but the people who crushed the Nazi war machine was the Red Army. The Americans and ourselves helped a lot, but we didn't crush Nazi Germany and anyone putting statues up to claim that we did is an idiot.
Are you Russian?
 
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JonMc

Striker
Why ? Do you anything about him,history,achievements ?

Are you Russian?
I know bits. I never studied him though. Bur why not? Lecturers voted to take down the statue and a dedicated place for it seems sensible if people want to see it and learn about his place in history. What difference does it make if I have studied him or not? It just seems to be a solution that would keep everyone happy. Discussion without anybody tearing anything down, y'know? Or so I thought when I started the thread.
 

Why ? Do you anything about him,history,achievements ?

Are you Russian?

What on earth has that got to do with anything/
But are statues the only way we learn history, or from the past?

Arguably by idolising inanimate objects we're not learning or moving on at all?

If we want to learn history from statues then the best place for them is a museum

It's not as if museums don't already have statues in them
 
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safc9450

Midfield
I know bits. I never studied him though. Bur why not? Lecturers voted to take down the statue and a dedicated place for it seems sensible if people want to see it and learn about his place in history. What difference does it make if I have studied him or not? It just seems to be a solution that would keep everyone happy. Discussion without anybody tearing anything down, y'know? Or so I thought when I started the thread.
What makes you think that Lecturers know what they are doing. Most of them are thick as shit, know only their own subject (not 100%) just enough to get the job.
 

JonMc

Striker
What makes you think that Lecturers know what they are doing. Most of them are thick as shit, know only their own subject (not 100%) just enough to get the job.
What difference does your perception of lecturers make? Why does it matter to you that they want a statue of a rather controversial man (controversial in his own time too) removed? Do you work with them? The point is that they never forcibly removed it. They don't want it destroyed. The uni weren't pussified about it - it just seems to be an administrative nightmare to get it done but the lecturers want their opinions heard and both camps are looking to work towards a solution. I don't see what the problem is.
 

mackemquaker

Midfield
Still not been to see that, really should make the effort.
A sculpture of a British soldier, part of British Empire machine his days will be numbered. The far left lunatics will be after him. War memorials days are numbered. Remember both wars were only fought to protect the interest of Empire and protect the colonies. The Woke Taliban can twist everything. How long before statues of Coal miners are deemed unacceptable as our ancestors contributed to global warming and the coal they dug provided fuel for the Empire.
 
Morons to the left and retards to the right. Removing statues ffs. It happened in the past. I could understand it a little more if supporters were flocking to Rhodes and Coulson’s statues and using them as rally backdrops preaching the merits of slavery and a return to the good old days, but they are not.
Maybe just pull all statues down. Im sure they all have skeletons in their closet. I imagine most men from the past would have been horrifically misogynistic and homophobic, so why is it a surprise if they had racist beliefs. The huge statue of the Duke of Sutherland who cleared the Highlands leaving people destitute looks down over Golspie without mad Jocks ripping it down.

It really was a sign of the times and as long as the statues aren't being glorified they should remain as part of our history, warts and all.

It might be worth setting a commission up to add extra information to controversial statues showing the good and bad.
A sculpture of a British soldier, part of British Empire machine his days will be numbered. The far left lunatics will be after him. War memorials days are numbered. Remember both wars were only fought to protect the interest of Empire and protect the colonies. The Woke Taliban can twist everything. How long before statues of Coal miners are deemed unacceptable as our ancestors contributed to global warming and the coal they dug provided fuel for the Empire.
He was obviously a misogynist as well, going away to the glory of war and leaving his wife and kids to do all the housework.

Joking aside, most probably were misogynistic and it wasn't their fault. It was how society made them.
 
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A sculpture of a British soldier, part of British Empire machine his days will be numbered. The far left lunatics will be after him. War memorials days are numbered. Remember both wars were only fought to protect the interest of Empire and protect the colonies. The Woke Taliban can twist everything. How long before statues of Coal miners are deemed unacceptable as our ancestors contributed to global warming and the coal they dug provided fuel for the Empire.

What kind of weird fantasy world do you live in?

Co-opting the bravery and sacrifice of older and nobler generations in support of your own reactionary twattishness

Stolen glory
 

JonMc

Striker
A sculpture of a British soldier, part of British Empire machine his days will be numbered. The far left lunatics will be after him. War memorials days are numbered. Remember both wars were only fought to protect the interest of Empire and protect the colonies. The Woke Taliban can twist everything. How long before statues of Coal miners are deemed unacceptable as our ancestors contributed to global warming and the coal they dug provided fuel for the Empire.
It was made to remember that millions signed up to fight and die in the name of patriotism under the command of people who will murder you themselves if you suffer too much stress. The message on the bottom reads - 'If you are quick to sign up you'll slowly stroll in the direction of machine gun fire where you'll be butchered with the friend you signed up with. 'Let it be a warning for future generations.'
 

PTR

Striker
What makes you think that Lecturers know what they are doing. Most of them are thick as shit, know only their own subject (not 100%) just enough to get the job.
You think someone who passed:
GCSEs
A Levels
Degree
And then goes beyond that and is then asked to teach at University is "thick as shit"


This is what people actually think of the educated demographic in this country. Its f***ing sad how people have been brainwashed.
 

safc9450

Midfield
You think someone who passed:
GCSEs
A Levels
Degree
And then goes beyond that and is then asked to teach at University is "thick as shit"


This is what people actually think of the educated demographic in this country. Its f***ing sad how people have been brainwashed.
Yes.Try watching them on The Chase, Mastermind etc. Most couldn't change a bulb.
 

PTR

Striker
Yes.Try watching them on The Chase, Mastermind etc. Most couldn't change a bulb.
The fuck does "quizzing" have to do with intelligence?
Knowing random facts is what the smartarse down the pub brags about on the quiz machine.

Its nothing to do with actual intellect.

This is exactly why we can't have grown up discussions in this country. People thinking knowing the names of the lasses in Bananarama is more impressive than how a vaccine actually works.
 

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