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Star Trek : Discovery

Discussion in 'SMB' started by HebburnMackem, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. Dark Traveller

    Dark Traveller Striker

    Bloody hell how long did it take you to type all that!?!

    Time travel theory/causality gives me major headaches.... you are giving me a friggin migraine!

    I read (or maybe watched) something that described time as being fluid. So if you are involved in an event, something that could have repercussions in the future, and if you travelled back to that incident, you will only remember that incident as it happens.

    So, let’s say that if it was future Burnham that travelled back to when the trap had been laid. Then she will only remember the events as they unfold, because she is part of the moment. She maybe aware of the trap, but because time is fluid the changes will not impact upon her until they reach her point in the future.
     
  2. The Exile

    The Exile Striker

    Also, they've spent the entire series telling us time can be rewritten, but Pike can't avoid his fate having seen it? He could quit tomorrow, or refuse to go on training cruises. Time isn't an entity to make a bargain with.
     
  3. HebburnMackem

    HebburnMackem Striker

    >Don't confuse our models of reality with actual reality. They're not the same thing.

    It depends on the model. That's the whole scientific process that is used to see if a purely theoretical model is reality or not, either by direct observational evidence or by some factor of certainty threshold deemed appropriate and then repeating it with independent sources.
    What I was referring to is direct observational evidence and proven science with some elements of speculative theory.
    You're not going to argue against Thermodynamics and its relationship entropy are you?

    >We know that QM is wrong

    Oh this is so incorrect. You'd be disagreeing with just about every leading physicist out there by saying that.
    Don't confuse incompleteness with wrong. QM is used on a daily basis inside of many scientific and engineering industries in a very concrete way. Just because we've not completed the grand unification theory with does not make it wrong either. Any more than me incorrectly predicting tonights result makes Football wrong.
    QFT is a little more out there for me, but I've not mentioned that or it's relationship with QM or classical physics.

    >So which is correct? Neither.

    Incompleteness != Incorrectness

    >At the end of the day time-travel backwards is just a fun thought experiment. Nowt more.

    Like I've said, there are no physical laws that block the ability to travel back in time.

    >Talk of wormholes and shite is just sci-fi. Time doesn't exist. It's a mathematical concept we use to put things in order. Things change, we measure the change and attach a label to it.

    Wormholes are almost certainly not shite and just sci-fi. That article even mentions it. Please, look at any modern physicist and they will tell you they think wormholes are likely possible. In fact there's fairly solid science on how you can construct one, including details of how the experiments that can be constructed. There's one unproven theory that quantum entanglement is achieved by subatomic sized wormholes connecting the particles together. I'm personally guessing we'll be able to make a wormhole at that size in the next 20 years.

    >Re: The Hawking article you posted. 1, he's talking about FTL travel, aka, time dilation, which in theory would allow us to travel "forward" in time relative to somebody else. We can do this now albeit on tiny scales.

    Remember there's an observer and and the observed in this scenario. So for the party travelling forwards in time, the other party will be travelling back in time in a relative fashion. Remember in relativity, there is no absolute frame of reference either in space or time. Therefore this is s situation where time travel into the past relative to the other person has occurred. As I mentioned before however, neither party can travel to 1900. So it's a specific form of travelling back and forwards in time.

    However his use of FTL is not *just* what you've mentioned. He's specifically saying your frame of reference would run backwards compared to the frame of reference of say, the majority of Earth.

    "Unfortunately, it takes infinite energy to accelerate a human being to the speed of light, let alone beyond it. But even if we could, time wouldn’t simply run backwards. "

    This is what I mentioned earlier, a body with mass has further challenges, but hawkins here is directly saying he thinks it might be possible.. for sure he's not saying it's impossible.

    (As you've mentioned, please don't get hung up by one article, by one source, it was not my intention to use that article as some form of evidence or accurate description of the scenario at hand, merely to show Hawkins himself changed his mind to consider time travel into the past might be possible. If you want I could dig up a large number of credible references to modern papers and articles from accredited physicists that also concede that time travel is possible or at least has not been ruled out completely. But that would be a pain in the arse.)

    For a massless object, it becomes infinitely easier and does not need infinite energy for something like a photon. Or for say something wrapped up in a pseudo science quantum field suit.

    Remember from a photon frame of reference it's actually travelling at infinite velocities and time has stopped or is just one "thing". It's only us as observers in another frame of reference that observes it travelling.

    [We should take this discussion offline so we don't spoil the Star Trek thread and also avoid the usual suspects that try to turn it into a personal argument]

    I'm betting the tether has something significant to do with this. Just like a warp bubble excludes ships from the effects of spacetime to stop FTL, I think this tether is some sort of temporal link that exempts the wearer from localised time "rules".
    How that exemption plays out in this story I need to give it more thought...

    But as I said earlier, it was never B who came back anyway.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  4. jacko100

    jacko100 Striker

    Sometime when I think I've reached peak geek, its good to come along and read one of your posts and realise I've a long way to go!! ;)
     
  5. HebburnMackem

    HebburnMackem Striker

    I'm just full of shit mate and argumentative :lol:
     
    jacko100 likes this.
  6. jjarra_mackem

    jjarra_mackem Midfield

    SEB
     
    HebburnMackem likes this.
  7. PulseSafc

    PulseSafc Midfield

    @HebburnMackem I consider myself fairly intelligent with a degree and masters to my name but I must have understood about 3 words of the discussion you were having. Where do I start with a layman intro to what you are talking about?

    Bringing it back to the subject of the thread...today's episode?
    Utter rubbish for me.
    Clearly something of a filler episode before next week's finale.
     
    Some Random Guy and DiscoPants86 like this.
  8. bigmarlon

    bigmarlon Midfield

    Actually every physicist on the planet knows that QM and Relativity are wrong at a fundamental level. They're not just "incomplete". QM will never be able to include gravity, relativity will never be able to describe things at a quantum level. Both models, whilst highly accurate and a huge accomplishment, are wrong. Problem is... we don't even know where to start in creating a new model.

    Conservation of energy?

    Fuck sake man marra.

    Einstein-Rosen bridges are a theoretical consequence of the abstract maths in relativity. To create one would take a particle accelerator the size of the fucking solar system. :lol:

    Upon reading the rest of your post I've realised that you have no formal education in physics and are just writing nonsense, no offence intended. I'm guessing you've read wiki pages on physics and watched Michio Kaku documentaries on the scyfy channel but have never actually picked up a maths book and learned the basics. You need to forget everything you've learned and go back to the beginning marra. It's literally impossible to get a grasp of physics without learning how to use abstract maths.
     
    Some Random Guy likes this.
  9. The Exile

    The Exile Striker

    Odd episode today, clearly a two hour finale cut in half.

    I get the feeling the show is writing itself into a corner on time travel.

    Why is Georgiou there at all? Why would she say what she said to Pike? Why are all these top secret organisations so well known about?

    It's been a very good season overall, but let down by some inconsistent logic and a central character whose performance simply doesn't justify her billing while those around her excel nearly every week.

    If it was a choice between Disco and a Pike led Enterprise show, there's no choice to be made.
     
    FishburnMackem and HebburnMackem like this.
  10. Don Birnam

    Don Birnam Full Back

    I’d like to know where Spock thinks he’s going.

    I spend every episode hoping Burnham dies in a freak accident involving a bulk head falling on her. I’d love a Pike Enterprise show. Anything without Burnham.
     
    bigmarlon likes this.
  11. bigmarlon

    bigmarlon Midfield

    The show spends so much time on her that it neglects the other characters.

    The other week that robot lass died and they had a funeral, I couldn't even tell you her name let alone give any fucks about the character. I couldn't name 1 bridge character apart from Tilly.

    It's the Michael Burnham show.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
    The Exile likes this.
  12. Some Random Guy

    Some Random Guy Striker

    Saru and Erm....
     
    bigmarlon likes this.
  13. Invictus

    Invictus Central Defender

    That’s been the main problem with the ‘guest’ captains over the 2 seasons. They have been the secondary character to Burnham and really interesting but they are only there for a season and gone. That hasn’t really left any time to develop any of the other crew, with a couple of exceptions, so you don’t really care that much about them.

    It will be interesting to see who survives next weeks episode.
     
  14. My Boy Harry

    My Boy Harry Striker

    Long since stopped watching this tripe. It’s an insult to the original series. After about 4 episodes of series 1 it just got boring. Star Trek for millennials.
     
  15. bigmarlon

    bigmarlon Midfield

    [​IMG]
     
    Some Random Guy likes this.
  16. HebburnMackem

    HebburnMackem Striker

    What an utterly shit episode. There was only 10 minutes of story there, the rest is meaningless "goodbye" dialog over and over again. With the same repeat scene with Burnham and Tyler we get every fucking episode.
    It was so bad I was shouting at the telly and almost skipped past parts of it.
    4/10
    A nothing episode. The writers should be sacked.
     
  17. Invictus

    Invictus Central Defender

    The highlight for me was the reimagined Enterprise. I think they did a really good job of updating it but keeping an original feel to it.
     
    HebburnMackem likes this.
  18. bigmarlon

    bigmarlon Midfield

    The gay black fella is getting on my tits going on about his "feelings" all the fucking time. Half the episodes are him sitting around moping feeling sorry for himself.

    WHAT THE FUCK HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH STARS OR TREKS!!

    I wish they'd load him into a torpedo bay and fire the twat into the nearest star like.
     
  19. The Exile

    The Exile Striker

    Tbf to the lad, he was dead for quite a while. I suspect we'd all want to work that through at some point.
     
  20. Randy Ostrich

    Randy Ostrich Striker

    I'd give anything to hear Stamets say "I liked you better before you died".
     

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