SS-GB on Sunday bbc1 9pm

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Britain was never the goal. We could have stayed out of both wars.
Also I think if you wiki 'war games' or something to that effects, German and British generals got together after the war and acted out what would have happened upon the German invasion and they would have got just north of London and been stopped.


and i'll point out that the Sandhurst games were rigged in favour of the Germans, in that the RN was'nt allowed into action until after the germans had landed
 


and i'll point out that the Sandhurst games were rigged in favour of the Germans, in that the RN was'nt allowed into action until after the germans had landed
Haha really? Was that to allow the German mock up to be at full strength?
 
Haha really? Was that to allow the German mock up to be at full strength?

it was to allow them to get their first wave ashore to give them something to game

even with the followup waves they hamstrung the RN by 'only' letting them use nothing bigger than a light cruiser (and therefore ignoring the historical RN dispositions in Sept 40 - which for example had HMS Revenge based in Portsmouth and making almost nightly booze cruises to shell invasion ports) - but even with that restriction the 2nd wave lost 25% of their transpors before landing, and the 3rd wave lost 65% before landing

the result was that of the 90000 germans who set foot on land, only 15000 made it back to France
 
I enjoyed it, slow burner so will give it a go. 5/10
 
It's not excited me so far. However, I'll try again next Sunday simply due to there being nothing else worth watching at that time on a Sunday.

The acting is more wooden than Kielder Forest.
 
Britain was never the goal. We could have stayed out of both wars.
Also I think if you wiki 'war games' or something to that effects, German and British generals got together after the war and acted out what would have happened upon the German invasion and they would have got just north of London and been stopped.
Would the Germans have made it across the English channel even with air superiority? AN earlier poster alluded to the fact that the invasion barges were not fit for purpose and that I am sure is one of the criticisms that historians made of the invasion plans. Plus the under estimation of the strength of the Royal navy.

Agree with the point on Britain never being the main goal. For Hitler that was always the 'living space' in the East, i.e. Russia, Ukraine etc.
 
..........Also, I believe most historians have said Operation Sea Lion would not have succeeded even if the Luftwaffe had won the Battle of Britain?

The Germans realised after a couple of weeks that it would be an impossible crossing using French barges and there was the massive firepower of the Royal Navy to get past. They kept up the impression it could still happen and instead tried to bomb us into surrender with that fear in the background.

theres a reason why Sealion gets called the 'unmentionable seamammal' on alternate history sites

it would never have worked in a gazillion years

rhine barges and the english channel do not make happy shipmates

Yes it was impossible.
 
Would the Germans have made it across the English channel even with air superiority? AN earlier poster alluded to the fact that the invasion barges were not fit for purpose and that I am sure is one of the criticisms that historians made of the invasion plans. Plus the under estimation of the strength of the Royal navy.

Agree with the point on Britain never being the main goal. For Hitler that was always the 'living space' in the East, i.e. Russia, Ukraine etc.
I'm sadly not too clued up on this topic of invasion.


But yes, the East was everything. I've read Mein Kampf, and many official documents. You'd be amazed how little Britain (and France) are mentioned, especially since history over here is told as both wards being primarily Britain v Germany.
The East has been a German policy for centuries, not just a Nazi one as mot think. Has a lot to do with Ukraine in 2014 imo.
 
it was to allow them to get their first wave ashore to give them something to game

even with the followup waves they hamstrung the RN by 'only' letting them use nothing bigger than a light cruiser (and therefore ignoring the historical RN dispositions in Sept 40 - which for example had HMS Revenge based in Portsmouth and making almost nightly booze cruises to shell invasion ports) - but even with that restriction the 2nd wave lost 25% of their transpors before landing, and the 3rd wave lost 65% before landing

the result was that of the 90000 germans who set foot on land, only 15000 made it back to France

Maintaining supply lines for the Germans would have been impossible. Whatever initial headway they made would have soon ground to a halt.
 
Would the Germans have made it across the English channel even with air superiority? AN earlier poster alluded to the fact that the invasion barges were not fit for purpose and that I am sure is one of the criticisms that historians made of the invasion plans. Plus the under estimation of the strength of the Royal navy.

Agree with the point on Britain never being the main goal. For Hitler that was always the 'living space' in the East, i.e. Russia, Ukraine etc.

that would have been me, and no they would'nt have managed it even if they had air supremacy never mind air superiority (and the luftwaffe were'nt great at anti-shipping till late 1941)

also
a barge at 4 knots would take something like 7 hours to go from somewhere like boulogne to dover (not including forming up time at each end) which means one of your trips will be in darkness and so be without air cover

and once theres no air cover then its party time for the RN (and even with air cover the RN would have thrown everything into the mix, luftwaffe be damned)

a destroyer passing close by at 30knots will swamp a barge, what do you think a battleship doing 20 would do (whilst also firing shells that are the size of ford fiestas at anything german that moves)

thats without even thinking about what state the troops would be in after a 7 hr crossing, to say nothing of the horses that they were reliant on

or without thinking about the type of beaches that are prevalent on the south coast

or without thinking about the fact the the majority of the heavy equipment was due to go in with the second wave

etc, etc
 
that would have been me, and no they would'nt have managed it even if they had air supremacy never mind air superiority (and the luftwaffe were'nt great at anti-shipping till late 1941)

also
a barge at 4 knots would take something like 7 hours to go from somewhere like boulogne to dover (not including forming up time at each end) which means one of your trips will be in darkness and so be without air cover

and once theres no air cover then its party time for the RN (and even with air cover the RN would have thrown everything into the mix, luftwaffe be damned)

a destroyer passing close by at 30knots will swamp a barge, what do you think a battleship doing 20 would do (whilst also firing shells that are the size of ford fiestas at anything german that moves)

thats without even thinking about what state the troops would be in after a 7 hr crossing, to say nothing of the horses that they were reliant on

or without thinking about the type of beaches that are prevalent on the south coast

or without thinking about the fact the the majority of the heavy equipment was due to go in with the second wave

etc, etc

I saw a documentary in which an old former Luftwaffe pilot was being interviewed and he said they felt relief when the invasion was called off. He considered it would have been suicidal to have attacked British battleships and cruisers in the channel considering the firepower they could deploy. These were ships that were very heavily armed with anti aircraft guns.

Even the Japanese were not using the Divine Wind of the kamikaze at that point never mind the Germans.
 
I saw a documentary in which an old former Luftwaffe pilot was being interviewed and he said they felt relief when the invasion was called off. He considered it would have been suicidal to have attacked British battleships and cruisers in the channel considering the firepower they could deploy. These were ships that were very heavily armed with anti aircraft guns.

Even the Japanese were not using the Divine Wind of the kamikaze at that point never mind the Germans.

the ships were well-armed for the time, but even those same ships 5 years later would have had twice or 3 times the AAA that they started the war with

but still, i would'nt want to go up against them with 1940 luftwaffe training, skills and experience
 
the ships were well-armed for the time, but even those same ships 5 years later would have had twice or 3 times the AAA that they started the war with

but still, i would'nt want to go up against them with 1940 luftwaffe training, skills and experience

In a way the Luftwaffe was the first modern air force in concept. To support ground forces with their shock and awe blitzkrieg tactics in advance of the land attack. Even their bombers were medium and not heavy bombers like our own Lancaster. In concept, the Luftwaffe was ahead of its time but that was also its downfall.

Still, alternative histories are interesting and I watch a lot of the Scandinavian slow drama series. I thought it was ok but have not read the book.

I do like the hats though. The black fedora hats that is not the German helmets.
 
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In a way the Luftwaffe was the first modern air force in concept. To support ground forces with their shock and awe blitzkrieg tactics in advance of the land attack. Even their bombers were medium and not heavy bombers like our own Lancaster. In concept, the Luftwaffe was ahead of its time but that was also its downfall.

Still, alternative histories are interesting and I watch a lot of the Scandinavian slow drama series. I thought it was ok but have not read the book.

I do like the hats though. The black fedora hats that is not the German helmets.

the luftwaffe was an airforce designed around a specific mission based on German geography and the technological limitations of the time - it was'nt some 'modern' airforce that was ahead of its time at all

Germany as a land power needed to be able to quickly overwhelm its near neighbours, and so the airforce was designed around support of blitzkrieg

UK as an island had little or no need to provide support for an army it did'nt really have. It needed interceptors to stop other peoples bombers, and long range bombers to take the fight as far away as possible

the US as a continental superpower had the money and the resources to do everything - so they did

etc etc
 
Pretty sure that Churchill had authorised the use of gas the moment a German boot touched one of our beaches and we had stockpiled this just in case.

yes, he probably would have authorised gas, but it was'nt stockpiled as a beach defence weapon - it had been stockpiled because it was a WMD, and in much the same way that now countries dont go around nuking other nuclear powers by the time of WW2 it was our counter to german poison gas stocks

no-one really wanted to unleash the gas horror of WW1 updated to 1940's tech
 
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