Spanish police raid Catalan Regional Government buildings to stop an Independence referendum

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Daft situation between two sides hell-bent to stick to their guns, will not end well...I blame them in Madrid a lot more than those in Barcelona
When it all comes down to it its about money - Catalonia saying they create wealth which is spent by Madrid. Similarly Scottish Independence was all about would the Scots be better off in or out of the UK. Nationalism tends to be the politics of selfishness dressed up with a bit of history. In Scotland 20% of those living there were born in England and therefore most will have English roots somewhere down the line. Similarly in Catalonia many people will be born in Spain (outside of Catalonia) or have Spanish roots. These Nationalist movements are the same sentiments as Brexit and Trump but try to dress themselves up as somehow noble.
 


a) it's not the richest per capita, it's 4th behind Madrid, Basque and Navarre. It's just that it has 16% of Spain's population.

b) It also has about two fifths of the total debts owed by Spain's regional governments.
I thought Catalans and basques were the same thing
 
It's a tricky one. In truth the only way forward is to allow a vote though (and perhaps with an agreement that there can't be another one for a fixed period except in certain circumstances). From what I have read it is unlikely that Catalans would vote to leave anyway, so why not put it to bed by letting them go ahead? If anything by digging their heels in the govt in Madrid is likely to make more people want to secede...a lesson in how not to handle democracy IMO.

Absolutely this ^^
 
It would have been much more subtle if they'd just surreptitiously changed the ballot paper to a referendum on Catatonia, so they'd only notice something was up when instead of independence they just got that Welsh lass hollering Mulder and Scully
 
Jaysus. Is Franco back?

I'm afraid so.

Check Rajoys strict gagging orders preventing free speech, demonstrations and reporting of anything which may be considered anti govt, which also give the cops a free hand to do virtually anything they wish totally free from criticism or any sort of interference.
 
I don't understand how it would be possible to divvy up debt obligations if an area of a modern western state gained independence peacefully. Presumably the debt is mostly in government bonds based on the risk profile of the state in its entirety. If the 'new' country agreed some proportion of the debt it would be much riskier and expensive to service?
 
I don't understand how it would be possible to divvy up debt obligations if an area of a modern western state gained independence peacefully. Presumably the debt is mostly in government bonds based on the risk profile of the state in its entirety. If the 'new' country agreed some proportion of the debt it would be much riskier and expensive to service?
I'm sure there are lots of complexities, yes. Probably not as mind boggling as Brexit though, given that Catalonia would no doubt stay within the EU.
 
I'm sure there are lots of complexities, yes. Probably not as mind boggling as Brexit though, given that Catalonia would no doubt stay within the EU.
How can they stay in the EU? We had this when it was mooted for Scotland. Would they meet the criteria to join the Euro zone? You can't just snap a nation state in two and expect both pieces to have equivalent status in the eyes of a larger entity, I'm sure the other 27 states (28 if we still have a say by then) would want their input on the matter.

This whole self determinism malarkey is a hell of a lot more complex than a group of people with perhaps fine intentions just taking the huff, saying, "My ball, my game" and stonking off in a hissy fit.
 
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