Shipbuilding Industries Pension Scheme - can you help?

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Would think the Shipbuilding scheme will have been a final salary scheme and it has been moved to Aviva which is not a final salary scheme.

Chances are that as a result the pension from Aviva will be less than the pension from the final salary scheme and will probably not be indexed link.

Need to have it checked to see if the advice to transfer was correct.
 


There used to be a GMB office in Lynas house, in Sunderland

A man called Tony Carty used to be a top union man who would give excellent advice on this subject.

There also used to an office in the upstairs of the old school building in villiers street in Sunderland who helped in cases such as this.

They GMB were superb after my dads death. As they were for most of his lifetime, thinking back
 
janiep said:
I've been approached by a family friend about his pension. He worked at British Shipbuilders until the late 1980s. On leaving, he was advised to transfer his British Shipbuilders pension to what is known as a 'Section 32' pension with Norwich Union (now Aviva).

He's told me who advised him to do this, but I'm not going to say who this was for now. It's far too early to say if anything was wrong with what happened. Pensions isn't my area, but I've seen enough and read enough to think this is worth investigating on the basis he may have been given poor advice. I'm not saying it's going to get anywhere, far too early to say.

However, I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who went through similar and likewise transferred their pension, or who was advised to do so but didn't (we've been told that some lads didn't transfer it, so it doesn't seem to have been a mandatory transfer out). I'd also like to hear from anyone who kept their British Shipbuilders pension (whether or not they got advice to move it). And I'd like to hear from anyone who has since taken any steps in terms of taking further any question of the advice to transfer the pension out.

We currently have two lines of enquiry:

a) Whether the advice to transfer was wrong; and
b) Whether Norwich Union, and/or Aviva, have managed the pension appropriately since.

It's question a) which is my current focus in terms of this thread. I've already seen that there's plenty of information out there about Section 32 pensions, and we'll look at this.

Thanks in advance. If we decide to pursue it, I'll let you know.
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IIRC my dad moved his.
 
janiep said:
I've been approached by a family friend about his pension. He worked at British Shipbuilders until the late 1980s. On leaving, he was advised to transfer his British Shipbuilders pension to what is known as a 'Section 32' pension with Norwich Union (now Aviva).

He's told me who advised him to do this, but I'm not going to say who this was for now. It's far too early to say if anything was wrong with what happened. Pensions isn't my area, but I've seen enough and read enough to think this is worth investigating on the basis he may have been given poor advice. I'm not saying it's going to get anywhere, far too early to say.

However, I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who went through similar and likewise transferred their pension, or who was advised to do so but didn't (we've been told that some lads didn't transfer it, so it doesn't seem to have been a mandatory transfer out). I'd also like to hear from anyone who kept their British Shipbuilders pension (whether or not they got advice to move it). And I'd like to hear from anyone who has since taken any steps in terms of taking further any question of the advice to transfer the pension out.

We currently have two lines of enquiry:

a) Whether the advice to transfer was wrong; and
b) Whether Norwich Union, and/or Aviva, have managed the pension appropriately since.

It's question a) which is my current focus in terms of this thread. I've already seen that there's plenty of information out there about Section 32 pensions, and we'll look at this.

Thanks in advance. If we decide to pursue it, I'll let you know.
Click to expand...

If its any use to you, I've a considerable pension pot with and American company I used to work for. Its a final salary scheme (which is the important part). They often write to me offering me rather large lump sums to take my pension elsewhere - my financial advisor has looked into this, and simply put, points out that they wouldn't offer me money to go away if it was in my interests rather than theirs.

I would suggest that if the pension from British Shipbuilders was a final salary scheme, or a with profit type of arrangement, it is unlikely a commercially available product would be able to match the benefits offered by the Shipbuilders scheme. I think Section 32 pensions have a guaranteed minimum value, so that might be worth looking into as well.
 
I have a NHS pension and when I started work in the early 90s there was a raft of 'financial advisors' that went to hospitals to see Junior Docs after a night on call to get them to invest in additional pension contributions. I signed up and was paying £25 a month from 1993 to around 2012. Found out I should have put any extra in the NHS pension and the advice was mis-sold so I got onto a company and they looked into it (for the usual 30%) and they got me back around £12k I think so these things are worth looking into!
 
Unbalanced Views said:
If its any use to you, I've a considerable pension pot with and American company I used to work for. Its a final salary scheme (which is the important part). They often write to me offering me rather large lump sums to take my pension elsewhere - my financial advisor has looked into this, and simply put, points out that they wouldn't offer me money to go away if it was in my interests rather than theirs.

I would suggest that if the pension from British Shipbuilders was a final salary scheme, or a with profit type of arrangement, it is unlikely a commercially available product would be able to match the benefits offered by the Shipbuilders scheme. I think Section 32 pensions have a guaranteed minimum value, so that might be worth looking into as well.
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Many companies want their closed final salary schemes off the books and are offering enhanced transfer values to get members to leave the scheme. Sometimes significant increases v the actual value.

You should look into it more than just simply reject it out of hand - there is loads more flexibility in how you access your fund and if you die before 75 whatever is left transfers to your beneficiaries tax free.

The “you should never leave a final salary scheme” line isn’t always true anymore.

janiep said:
I think the original scheme was SIPS, yes. Or possibly British Shipbuilders Pension Scheme.
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This is a different product. SIPPs are Self Invested Personal Pensions. Historically they were used mainly by high earners who wanted to invest in more bespoke investments than your typical personal pension. Not related to a section 32 but out.

I think the claims being made are that advisors were making money out of transfers to these plans which can carry higher fees when they aren’t necessary for a lot of individuals.
 
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janiep said:
I've been approached by a family friend about his pension. He worked at British Shipbuilders until the late 1980s. On leaving, he was advised to transfer his British Shipbuilders pension to what is known as a 'Section 32' pension with Norwich Union (now Aviva).

He's told me who advised him to do this, but I'm not going to say who this was for now. It's far too early to say if anything was wrong with what happened. Pensions isn't my area, but I've seen enough and read enough to think this is worth investigating on the basis he may have been given poor advice. I'm not saying it's going to get anywhere, far too early to say.

However, I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who went through similar and likewise transferred their pension, or who was advised to do so but didn't (we've been told that some lads didn't transfer it, so it doesn't seem to have been a mandatory transfer out). I'd also like to hear from anyone who kept their British Shipbuilders pension (whether or not they got advice to move it). And I'd like to hear from anyone who has since taken any steps in terms of taking further any question of the advice to transfer the pension out.

We currently have two lines of enquiry:

a) Whether the advice to transfer was wrong; and
b) Whether Norwich Union, and/or Aviva, have managed the pension appropriately since.

It's question a) which is my current focus in terms of this thread. I've already seen that there's plenty of information out there about Section 32 pensions, and we'll look at this.

Thanks in advance. If we decide to pursue it, I'll let you know.
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I'm sure there'll be a FB page for ex shipyard workers so may be worth posting the question on there or contact the Maritime Heritage people who will know lots of ex shipyard people.
 
Rusty84 said:
Many companies want their closed final salary schemes off the books and are offering enhanced transfer values to get members to leave the scheme. Sometimes significant increases v the actual value.

You should look into it more than just simply reject it out of hand - there is loads more flexibility in how you access your fund and if you die before 75 whatever is left transfers to your beneficiaries tax free.

The “you should never leave a final salary scheme” line isn’t always true anymore.



This is a different product. SIPPs are Self Invested Personal Pensions. Historically they were used mainly by high earners who wanted to invest in more bespoke investments than your typical personal pension. Not related to a section 32 but out.

I think the claims being made are that advisors were making money out of transfers to these plans which can carry higher fees when they aren’t necessary for a lot of individuals.
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A bunch of the lads working in our place (ex ICI) with a reasonable amount of service in on the old ICI pension are entitled to 1/60th Final salary per year worked up to 40 years - lads with 25-30 years plus are being offered buy outs in the high 6 figures and above in place of the final salary scheme for exactly the reasons you describe above. I'd be tempted but I have the princely sum of 2 years in the final salary scheme so will get about a tenner
 
taipeisafc said:
A bunch of the lads working in our place (ex ICI) with a reasonable amount of service in on the old ICI pension are entitled to 1/60th Final salary per year worked up to 40 years - lads with 25-30 years plus are being offered buy outs in the high 6 figures and above in place of the final salary scheme for exactly the reasons you describe above. I'd be tempted but I have the princely sum of 2 years in the final salary scheme so will get about a tenner
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would never sell a final salary scheme if you're still in it , even more so if you can get 40/60ths thats a crackin scheme
 
I have a small SIPS pension from when I worked for VSEL for a few years in the 80s/90s. I have never been approached by anyone suggesting I switch it anywhere, and when I started sorting out my fragmented pension stuff a few years ago my financial adviser looked into it and advised me to leave that one where it is.
 
I was in BS scheme for two years from 83 to 86 but just got my contributions back as the fund didn't buy me anything in the FSS I was moving to. In hindsight I should have kept it but needed the money at the time.
 
darius said:
I was in BS scheme for two years from 83 to 86 but just got my contributions back as the fund didn't buy me anything in the FSS I was moving to. In hindsight I should have kept it but needed the money at the time.
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Less than two years service was a mandatory refund of contributions, over 2 years you should have had the option to transfer into your new scheme or leave it as a deferred benefit.

A refund wouldn’t have been an option if you were in for over two years.

Rusty84 said:
This is a different product. SIPPs are Self Invested Personal Pensions. Historically they were used mainly by high earners who wanted to invest in more bespoke investments than your typical personal pension. Not related to a section 32 but out.

I think the claims being made are that advisors were making money out of transfers to these plans which can carry higher fees when they aren’t necessary for a lot of individuals.
Click to expand...

It was the British Shipbuilders Pension Scheme and became the Shipbuilding Industries Pension Scheme (SIPS) when the industry was privatised and British Shipbuilders ceased to exist. Nothing to do with a SIPP.
 
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Town End Farmer Giles said:
Less than two years service was a mandatory refund of contributions, over 2 years you should have had the option to transfer into your new scheme or leave it as a deferred benefit.

Less than two years service was a mandatory refund of contributions, over 2 years you should have had the option to transfer into your new scheme.

A refund wouldn’t have been an option if you were in for over two years.
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You couldn't join until you were 18 1/2. I left at 21 and 8 months so was in over three years and got around £500 pound back. I don't recall much other than that.
 
When I left the yards I was given an option to cancel the pension as get some cash. As a 20 year old, the cash option seemed a good idea.....

I was not offered any advise just given an option to stay in, or opt out. I think I got a couple of hundred quid.
 
Fletch said:
@The Butcher
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How old do you think I am ha. I did contract out SERPS on the advice of a dodgy TSB lad at the same time he wouldnt give me my loan without ppi. As a naive 29 year old I agreed. Got £1k off them last year after they initially refused. I would thoroughly recommend resolver.com, every application paid up and took 10 minutes to fill in. Go for it, they deserve all they get.
 
Town End Farmer Giles said:
It was the British Shipbuilders Pension Scheme and became the Shipbuilding Industries Pension Scheme (SIPS) when the industry was privatised and British Shipbuilders ceased to exist. Nothing to do with a SIPP.
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I know, that’s what I said mate, someone else mentioned about making a claim for mis-selling if SIPPs
 
I started my apprenticeship in 1980 and was down the yards till they closed in 1989..i've been told that lads with my service didn't have a pension when the yards closed..I've also been told that we received a payment when the yards closed to reimburse what we'd put in??
 
I worked down the yards for about 8 years during the 70’s and 80’s and had no idea there was a pension plan. Was it compulsory or discretionary?
 

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