Sess


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As I said we have paid over the odds for players. Look at the individual. He certainly didn't save them. Another player who is becoming a legend in poor memories
I can't look at the individual without seeing the alternative. Of course, I think we could do with a better CB than Brown, but I wouldn't be happy to see him go if the alternative was Vergini/Mancienne.
 
Weird post. So Giaccherhini producing more in less games for a team somehow makes Sessegnon more productive because in the games he produced in his team just so happened to defend better? Production is just production. What is made of that production is out of the individuals' hands. So it just so happened that Sessegnon's goals occurred in more decisive games, so what?

What? He didn't produce 'more' though. You're having to take assists and goals as the out and out decider (one goal being against Peterborough in the Cup), rather than including form and team play, which I actually took into account and mentioned. Yet Sess bettered him on goals in the league and was three behind on assists. Until you can show me where the assists affected team results, like I've shown with goals, then Sess very much has contributed more to WBA in stats alone.

I also said he played better for WBA than Giac did for us and was more important, which is very much true. Ask yourself why Giac didn't play more games too if he was as productive as you're making out, was it because he didn't warrant it?

The fact Sess's goals contributed to more points makes Sess contribution more important, which is what I said didn't I?

And before you go laughing yourself into a hernia at my post, may be you should check the accuracy of your own stats? You've credited Sess with 3 points for 'contributing' a goal to a 3-0 win over us yet Giaccherini scored in our 4-0 win over Cardiff and only gets credited with 2 points from you in total. How does that work, exactly? Genuine mistake or just trying to load the argument with total bullshit?

So it's four points to eight. Fair enough I added it up wrong.

I won't guess that your 'argument' - such as it is - is flimsier than a French car due to you being pissed. I don't really feel the need to feel sufficiently threatened by an alternative view that I have to convince myself that there is no possible way anyone can possibly disagree with my imperious opinion so therefore there must be some special explanation for it. If you want to believe, based on your interpretation of the evidence and your subjective viewing of games that Sessegnon had more impact, then fair enough. To each their own. That's the beauty of football.

You suggested that Sess couldn't have been that influential (no one actually said he was) due to Sunderland finishing higher last season, also getting to a cup final and WBA finishing lower than they had the previous season. That's just nonsense considering the amount of variables over the course of a season really isn't it and the amount of upheaval both clubs had?

You then backed that up by suggesting in some manner or other that I believed Sess was better last season or was a better player (I'm not sure) because he 'looks good'. Classic. If anyone out of the two looked good last season and flattered to deceive it was Giaccherini.

I'm just telling it like it is, though - in terms of individual contribution, Giaccherini produced more. He was directly involved in 9 goals last season to Sessegnon's 6, and he did with less opportunity. You can put a different interpretation on that and look at what those goals meant in terms of tangible product, but it's not definitive. It doesn't win an argument or dismiss another. You could argue that, with his assists at Cardiff and Manchester City, Giaccherini delivered in THE two crucial moments of our survival. Those two 2-2 away draws coming from behind were massive. One maintained the momentum that got us back in the pack after the horrific start (which was only not a total bust due to a Giaccherini goal, btw), the other created the momentum that got us out of it. You could also say, if we are crediting Sessegnon with contributing to the three points against us, that Giaccherini contributed to us getting to Wembley. I'd call that a pretty tangible contribution personally.

He did so with less opportunity? Giac was fit most of the season, he had ample opportunity to grab his chance and play. Sess played as a regular right up to two games into January, then was out over two months and had been playing when injured anyway.

Equally I could say one of WBA's last 2 points came as a result of a game Sess scored in (3-3 draw against Spurs) and he played in every game towards the end of the season they got points in. In fact in the period from Jan 4th (his last game before operation) to the first game he started after it (15th march a win against Swansea, was a late sub the previous game) WBA didn't win a game losing three and drawing four and was one of the worst runs they had last season.

Also WBA with Sess (League only):
Wins: 7
Draws: 7
Losses: 9

WBA without Sess (League only)
Wins:0
Draws:8
Losses:7

That's pretty obvious to me Sess was more important to WBA than Giac was to us and was more important.

Still, what I said remains true - Giaccherini produced more. Involved in 9 goals to 6. That's the fact here. The rest is just what you want to make of it.

Yes Giac produced more and was more influential....

Is there any need? Really?
Nevertheless, I don't agree that he was good, in general. He was good, on occasion. He was often not good and generally lacked "football intelligence". I wasn't thrilled to see him go, tbh - I quite liked him - but it wasn't a biggie. Again, the biggie was Giaccherini's under-performance.

Sorry, but you were talking about how we should have used the money better. I think it's pretty obvious for £6m it's going to be bloody hard to do so and the fact we got our money back easily on a 29 year old (potential game changer, although inconsistent) tells us that. I was maybe a bit hash, but honestly I think iut's brutally obvious doing better would have been blind luck.
 
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Like steed before him, sess frustrated, but his ability to beat men and take the pressure off by winning freekicks, or cause chaos by running at defenders creating space for others was great.

Giaach is clearly talented, but is feeble on thr ball, slower, and does not have the same abilities which helped us as a team.

even if johnson and aj go ontohave productive seasons, sess would be a better option than scocco, danny, fletch, jozy, mavrias, karlsson,
 
Like steed before him, sess frustrated, but his ability to beat men and take the pressure off by winning freekicks, or cause chaos by running at defenders creating space for others was great.

Giaach is clearly talented, but is feeble on thr ball, slower, and does not have the same abilities which helped us as a team.

even if johnson and aj go ontohave productive seasons, sess would be a better option than scocco, danny, fletch, jozy, mavrias, karlsson,

This.
 
i liked him as a player.
when he threw his strop at psg only we were interested. Speaks volumes for a 'gamechanger' that he had no other suitors able to outbid us, being
as tight as you claim us to be.
when he was hawked around, the only team interested in your 'gamechanger' were perennial relegation merchants and noted
scrooges wba.
but hey you know best..we were ripped etc etc that badly we got our money back on a 29 yo one in a million gamechanger and we finished above them..yes you have it all at your fingertips

You have issues.

He was our best player and our squad would currently be better with him in it.
 
Sorry, but you were talking about how we should have used the money better. I think it's pretty obvious for £6m it's going to be bloody hard to do so and the fact we got our money back easily on a 29 year old (potential game changer, although inconsistent) tells us that. I was maybe a bit hash, but honestly I think iut's brutally obvious doing better would have been blind luck.
Fair enough, where we differ is that you have a higher opinion of what Sess contributed than I do. It was good that we got out money back (for once we were not the suckers). $6 MM should have been enough to replace what Sess was imo of him.
 
Weird post. So Giaccherhini producing more in less games for a team somehow makes Sessegnon more productive because in the games he produced in his team just so happened to defend better? Production is just production. What is made of that production is out of the individuals' hands. So it just so happened that Sessegnon's goals occurred in more decisive games, so what?

And before you go laughing yourself into a hernia at my post, may be you should check the accuracy of your own stats? You've credited Sess with 3 points for 'contributing' a goal to a 3-0 win over us yet Giaccherini scored in our 4-0 win over Cardiff and only gets credited with 2 points from you in total. How does that work, exactly? Genuine mistake or just trying to load the argument with total bullshit?

I won't guess that your 'argument' - such as it is - is flimsier than a French car due to you being pissed. I don't really feel the need to feel sufficiently threatened by an alternative view that I have to convince myself that there is no possible way anyone can possibly disagree with my imperious opinion so therefore there must be some special explanation for it. If you want to believe, based on your interpretation of the evidence and your subjective viewing of games that Sessegnon had more impact, then fair enough. To each their own. That's the beauty of football.

I'm just telling it like it is, though - in terms of individual contribution, Giaccherini produced more. He was directly involved in 9 goals last season to Sessegnon's 6, and he did with less opportunity. You can put a different interpretation on that and look at what those goals meant in terms of tangible product, but it's not definitive. It doesn't win an argument or dismiss another. You could argue that, with his assists at Cardiff and Manchester City, Giaccherini delivered in THE two crucial moments of our survival. Those two 2-2 away draws coming from behind were massive. One maintained the momentum that got us back in the pack after the horrific start (which was only not a total bust due to a Giaccherini goal, btw), the other created the momentum that got us out of it. You could also say, if we are crediting Sessegnon with contributing to the three points against us, that Giaccherini contributed to us getting to Wembley. I'd call that a pretty tangible contribution personally.

Still, what I said remains true - Giaccherini produced more. Involved in 9 goals to 6. That's the fact here. The rest is just what you want to make of it.

:lol::lol:

Staggering post that!
 
Fair enough, where we differ is that you have a higher opinion of what Sess contributed than I do. It was good that we got out money back (for once we were not the suckers). $6 MM should have been enough to replace what Sess was imo of him.
But it wasn't, not even close. And a lot of people aren't surprised at all.
 
But it wasn't, not even close. And a lot of people aren't surprised at all.
Perhaps, but I would argue that a lot of people overrate Sess. Sess is a lot of sizzle and not much steak. We were correct to assume Giaccherini would replace Sess. He hasn't - yet - but that doesn't make Sess any better.
 
Perhaps, but I would argue that a lot of people overrate Sess. Sess is a lot of sizzle and not much steak. We were correct to assume Giaccherini would replace Sess. He hasn't - yet - but that doesn't make Sess any better.

People overrate because a player with such skills, strength and pace is a rarity for us, ive supported since 87, and he is one of the few thrilling players to watch, marco, magic, john byrne, may have had flaws but decades of turgid nobodies without pace, power, tricks, means they will get more goodwill than a steady eddie type
 
Perhaps, but I would argue that a lot of people overrate Sess. Sess is a lot of sizzle and not much steak. We were correct to assume Giaccherini would replace Sess. He hasn't - yet - but that doesn't make Sess any better.
In comparison with?

7 goals per season and at the heart of about all our attacking moves isn't really something to dismiss IMO.
 
There are many disagree with you. On his day he was a game changer but his day wasn't very often

Biggest myth ever. People seem to suggest that if he didn't score, or directly set up a goal, then he'd had a bad game. His biggest contribution to our team was the way he would be able to get us from one end of the pitch to the other, quickly. His weakest games were when he was wrongly played too far forward as a striker, preventing him from collecting the ball deep and bringing the team forward.
 
7 goals per season and at the heart of about all our attacking moves isn't really something to dismiss IMO.
Not dismissing, just not overstating.

People overrate because a player with such skills, strength and pace is a rarity for us, ive supported since 87, and he is one of the few thrilling players to watch, marco, magic, john byrne, may have had flaws but decades of turgid nobodies without pace, power, tricks, means they will get more goodwill than a steady eddie type
That's not the comparison. We should have got better to replace him - we didn't - that's the mistake. Our chronic lack of pace drives me bonkers - but that's nowt to do with Sess. If you like the Sizzle of Sess, or a Byrne, then fine (they have their moments) but I think we can/should do better.
 
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That's not the comparison. We should have got better to replace him - we didn't - that's the mistake. Our chronic lack of pace drives me bonkers - but that's nowt to do with Sess. If you like the Sizzle of Sess, or a Byrne, then fine (they have their moments) but I think we can/should do better.

We all think we should get better players for low fees, but do you have anyone in mind?
 
We all think we should get better players for low fees, but do you have anyone in mind?
No particularly - it depends how you want to structure the team. The subject here is Sess' value against types of players. I did not know much about Sess until we signed him, nor Giaccherini for that matter, but I know what these types of players do (and whether or not they're optimally useful).
 
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