Seriously, what is wrong with Messi?

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I thought I noticed he was holding his hamstring at one point - he didn't look up for it really and the Germans were just organised enough to nullify Messi's threat. Mascherano was their best player - but Schweinsteiger was outstanding last night.
The simple fact could be that he is great at club level but cant hack it on the biggest stage of all. It happens.

I'd agree it's a daft thing to say. What he has really been "exposed" as, is as an exceptional player who, for whatever reason, cannot quite carry the hopes of a nation on his shoulders in the way his famous predecessor managed.
This. He just hasnt performed to the ultimate level in an Argentine shirt. Nothing to be ashamed of.
 
Messi is a fantastic player, him and Cristiano Ronaldo are on a different level for me, but the cult of celebrity and hyperbole has reached fever point for a modern day greatest player ever. And while these two are as close as it gets they aren't far ahead as players as Maradona, Pele and the like were in their pomp.

And I don't think the Fuentes episode can be avoided as a prominent reason that the players of Spain, Barcelona and Real haven't reached the same performance levels as before.
 
The simple fact could be that he is great at club level but cant hack it on the biggest stage of all. It happens.


This. He just hasnt performed to the ultimate level in an Argentine shirt. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Thing is, he has performed at this World Cup. He hadn't been brilliant but he hadn't been shite, either.

7/10 which still isn't to be sniffed at.

He has a runners up medal and it was close to being a winning one.
 
Thing is, he has performed at this World Cup. He hadn't been brilliant but he hadn't been shite, either.

7/10 which still isn't to be sniffed at.

He has a runners up medal and it was close to being a winning one.
the problem is that to be generally regarded as the best player ever you have to perform brilliantly at the world cup. Maradona did and so did Pele and they were both WC winners. Maradona's exploits in 1986 were the stuff of true legend. He literally took an average team and turned them into the best. He was omnipresent at that world cup as Pele had been in both 1958 as a 17 year old kid and particularly in 1970 where he was peerless.

Messi is simply not as good as them - hurtful as it may seem to the "everything nowadays is the best" brigade.
 
the problem is that to be generally regarded as the best player ever you have to perform brilliantly at the world cup. Maradona did and so did Pele and they were both WC winners. Maradona's exploits in 1986 were the stuff of true legend. He literally took an average team and turned them into the best. He was omnipresent at that world cup as Pele had been in both 1958 as a 17 year old kid and particularly in 1970 where he was peerless.

Messi is simply not as good as them - hurtful as it may seem to the "everything nowadays is the best" brigade.

What can't be ignored is how much better everyone is - better conditioned both physically and tactically. Pele had freedom to play that Messi would never be allowed by the opposition, and who can forget Maradona running away from Reidy:)
It is getting harder and harder to be exceptional - that players such a Messi and Ronaldo can do this more than any other players shows just how good they are
 
Maybe he's sick of carrying the can so to speak, anyone that's ever done it in any perspective will know that after a while it becomes really, really draining.
 
the problem is that to be generally regarded as the best player ever you have to perform brilliantly at the world cup. Maradona did and so did Pele and they were both WC winners. Maradona's exploits in 1986 were the stuff of true legend. He literally took an average team and turned them into the best. He was omnipresent at that world cup as Pele had been in both 1958 as a 17 year old kid and particularly in 1970 where he was peerless.

Messi is simply not as good as them - hurtful as it may seem to the "everything nowadays is the best" brigade.
I wish people would stop going on about Maradona, he was a great player and Lance Armstrong was a great cyclist the other thing they have in common is they are both drug cheats. Both caught both confessed.
 
I wish people would stop going on about Maradona, he was a great player and Lance Armstrong was a great cyclist the other thing they have in common is they are both drug cheats. Both caught both confessed.
Agreed, Maradona is & was a cheating little ****, nowt great about that
 
the problem is that to be generally regarded as the best player ever you have to perform brilliantly at the world cup. Maradona did and so did Pele and they were both WC winners. Maradona's exploits in 1986 were the stuff of true legend. He literally took an average team and turned them into the best. He was omnipresent at that world cup as Pele had been in both 1958 as a 17 year old kid and particularly in 1970 where he was peerless.

Messi is simply not as good as them - hurtful as it may seem to the "everything nowadays is the best" brigade.

Agree.

Still, he will remembered as the best player of his generation and one of the true greats of football.
 
I wish people would stop going on about Maradona, he was a great player and Lance Armstrong was a great cyclist the other thing they have in common is they are both drug cheats. Both caught both confessed.
Unless you have some evidence that Maradona was caught and punished for taking performance enhancing drugs during the 1986 WC then your comment doesnt stand scrutiny. We need evidence not your personal preference.

Agree.

Still, he will remembered as the best player of his generation and one of the true greats of football.
He will, like Zidane before him who was also an exceptional player.
 
I wish people would stop going on about Maradona, he was a great player and Lance Armstrong was a great cyclist the other thing they have in common is they are both drug cheats. Both caught both confessed.

cocaine is not a performance enhancing drug, end of story
 
I wish people would stop going on about Maradona, he was a great player and Lance Armstrong was a great cyclist the other thing they have in common is they are both drug cheats. Both caught both confessed.

It's pretty likely that Messi has doped in some fashion through his career as well. Not that he's alone in that mind, would wager that the vast majority of top athletes are doping in some form these days.
 
cocaine is not a performance enhancing drug, end of story
...and he was never found guilty or prosecuted for taking cocaine during the 1986 world cup. What he did in subsequent world cups or his private life is as we both know a complete irrelevance to 1986 in which he was astonishingly brilliant.
 
What can't be ignored is how much better everyone is - better conditioned both physically and tactically. Pele had freedom to play that Messi would never be allowed by the opposition, and who can forget Maradona running away from Reidy:)
It is getting harder and harder to be exceptional - that players such a Messi and Ronaldo can do this more than any other players shows just how good they are
You are forgetting that Pele and Maradona were literally kicked out of World Cups in 66 and 82 by "defending" that would not be tolerated for a second today. Players have far more freedom and protection now.
 
...and he was never found guilty or prosecuted for taking cocaine during the 1986 world cup. What he did in subsequent world cups or his private life is as we both know a complete irrelevance to 1986 in which he was astonishingly brilliant.

he is the best/ most talented player to have ever played football
 
You are forgetting that Pele and Maradona were literally kicked out of World Cups in 66 and 82 by "defending" that would not be tolerated for a second today. Players have far more freedom and protection now.
disagree - more protection but less space
 
It's pretty likely that Messi has doped in some fashion through his career as well. Not that he's alone in that mind, would wager that the vast majority of top athletes are doping in some form these days.
:lol:

So, you've no proof at all but hey not to worry.
 
cocaine is not a performance enhancing drug, end of story
But that's not what he got booted out of the USA World Cup for. Good book is the book "Hand of God" about Maradona. I think he reflected the times. This is a bit of a rant but back in the old days, unfortunately, a lot of people probably used amphetamine on the pitch. It might have been a bit of a norm in some places like Argentina the way doping has been in the Tour De France in the past at least, I don't know about now.

Anyway, I'm not going to write up a long thing here, Maradona claims the ephedrine found in his test at the 1994 World Cup was from using some sort of diet drug. Well, ephedrine has in fact, been in a lot of diet pills so I don't consider this a huge strike against Maradona.

Unfamiliar with the Fuentes case then? Guessing it's sheer coincidence that Barcelona's infamous high-pressing style of play slowed down markedly once the blood bags were destroyed.
And would it pertain to Real Madrid too? I like Zidane but when he headbutted that guy, it just makes me wonder if his testosterone was a bit on a high level. Of course, ZZ did that a few other times in the past, Serie A possibly could have had doping going on, La Liga too.
 
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