Safe Standing Petition


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You can't overcrowd and can't move forwards. So rail seating makes no difference to the likelihood of violence or safety. Regardless of whether you're English, German or Scottish mate.
Just looking at the pictures posted earlier in the thread the first thing that will happen is that people will start to stand on the rails. Inevitable. It used to happen all the time in the previous standing areas. A few people fall and thats it - chaos. Seen it all before and know where standing areas and rails lead to. So do the authorities.

honestly we went through 10 pages of this just the other day with him. he is either on a long, drawn out, pointless wind up (if so he got me), or he is utterly thick

'it will be just the same as the old terraces, a return to dangerous stadia' -

no it won't look at the pictures

'i have looked at the pictures, it will be open terracing and people will be killed'

no it won't look at the pictures

'i was there in the 70's, people died at hillsborough, i hope standing never returns'

its safe standing mate, nowt like them days, look at the pictures'

'you will never change my opinion that standing is unsafe'

what is unsafe about standing where a seat is, with a rail to lean on?

'this will be a step backwards, people will die'
I'm going to ask you two very simple questions and I'd appreciate an answer - without insulting me please if thats ok:

Question 1 - is it ok for me to have a differing view to you on this?
Question 2 - why if I am in a minority does my minority view bother you so much?
 
:lol::lol:
so have I but was that because we were standing or sitting. Mine was standing doesn't seem to happen if you sit. :lol:

it would have been because we were standing but it's football culture. Now we could either attempt to forcibly change culture, causing uproar, putting thousands of stewards at risk when they try and cart out 300 drunk blokes in every premier league & championship stadium in the country or we could erect a slightly higher barrier at the front of each row and make the culture safe.
 
honestly we went through 10 pages of this just the other day with him. he is either on a long, drawn out, pointless wind up (if so he got me), or he is utterly thick

'it will be just the same as the old terraces, a return to dangerous stadia' -

no it won't look at the pictures

'i have looked at the pictures, it will be open terracing and people will be killed'

no it won't look at the pictures

'i was there in the 70's, people died at hillsborough, i hope standing never returns'

its safe standing mate, nowt like them days, look at the pictures'

'you will never change my opinion that standing is unsafe'

what is unsafe about standing where a seat is, with a rail to lean on?

'this will be a step backwards, people will die'
:lol: Literally his next post.... Just looking at the pictures blah blah blah

Just looking at the pictures posted earlier in the thread the first thing that will happen is that people will start to stand on the rails. Inevitable. It used to happen all the time in the previous standing areas. A few people fall and thats it - chaos. Seen it all before and know where standing areas and rails lead to. So do the authorities.


I'm going to ask you two very simple questions and I'd appreciate an answer - without insulting me please if thats ok:

Question 1 - is it ok for me to have a differing view to you on this?
Question 2 - why if I am in a minority does my minority view bother you so much?
Mate if a few people fall off and hurt themselves that's not gonna cause the rest to riot (even though it would be policed better now and people would be made not to or be ejected from the ground - and it wouldn't be overcrowded etc. which didn't help then so stewards etc. can easily intervene).

To answer your questions:
1. Yes
2. I've already answered this, because it's just annoying that you hold your view without actually listening to what anyone presents as evidence. I give up now. You can carry on grumbling about terraces and stuff to yourself.
 
Just looking at the pictures posted earlier in the thread the first thing that will happen is that people will start to stand on the rails. Inevitable. It used to happen all the time in the previous standing areas. A few people fall and thats it - chaos. Seen it all before and know where standing areas and rails lead to. So do the authorities.


I'm going to ask you two very simple questions and I'd appreciate an answer - without insulting me please if thats ok:

Question 1 - is it ok for me to have a differing view to you on this?
Question 2 - why if I am in a minority does my minority view bother you so much?

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it would have been because we were standing but it's football culture. Now we could either attempt to forcibly change culture, causing uproar, putting thousands of stewards at risk when they try and cart out 300 drunk blokes in every premier league & championship stadium in the country or we could erect a slightly higher barrier at the front of each row and make the culture safe.
Nah mate, we English hooligans will find a way to bend the laws of physics and human biology and still fall/be crushed to death.
 
Just looking at the pictures posted earlier in the thread the first thing that will happen is that people will start to stand on the rails. Inevitable. It used to happen all the time in the previous standing areas. A few people fall and thats it - chaos. Seen it all before and know where standing areas and rails lead to. So do the authorities.


I'm going to ask you two very simple questions and I'd appreciate an answer - without insulting me please if thats ok:

Question 1 - is it ok for me to have a differing view to you on this?
Question 2 - why if I am in a minority does my minority view bother you so much?

if it was to say Hilter was a nice man, would you pull me on that opinion or am I okay to have a differing view to you? I mean all the facts suggest I'm wrong but I don't intend on listening to facts.


:lol: :lol:
 
Whats laughbable is that people have been allowed to stand in an all seater stadia. It should never have been tolerated. Man United started it and the rest copied. The authorities since then have sat on their hands; instead of throwing people out and reducing Man United's away allocation to zero.

We are now at stage 3 ie asking for standing back. stage 4 and the final stage is someone asking for a return to the terraces. Little by little all seater stadia and the reason for it has been chipped away at.

They kicked people out of the south stand for it but it solved nothing and eventually people started kicking off when the stewards and police moved in. Hence the supporters meeting where they said the upper bowl was allowed to stand.

Whats laughbable is that people have been allowed to stand in an all seater stadia. It should never have been tolerated. Man United started it and the rest copied. The authorities since then have sat on their hands; instead of throwing people out and reducing Man United's away allocation to zero.

We are now at stage 3 ie asking for standing back. stage 4 and the final stage is someone asking for a return to the terraces. Little by little all seater stadia and the reason for it has been chipped away at.

You missed stage five. Expecting the authorities not to fuck up, overcrowd a section then blame the fans.
 
To answer your questions:
1. Yes
2. I've already answered this, because it's just annoying that you hold your view without actually listening to what anyone presents as evidence. I give up now. You can carry on grumbling about terraces and stuff to yourself.
You havent presented any evidence. Other than citing Germany and Scotland who have absolutely no relevance to this debate I'm struggling too see where there is any evidence of this working in England. Where has this been piloted in the top 2 divisions of English football for us to gain any evidence? Nowhere that I know of.

In fact you and others havent even said why this should happen. why should a football club spend a vast sum of money on remodelling stadiums for no gain or benefit? Its simply not logical.

What you and others are giving in an opinion and some nice pictures - no more and no less. Thats simply unarguable.
 
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It certainly is given the deaths that have occurred in standing areas of stadiums involving english football fans.

Yep. Those deaths were due to standing. Nothing else.

Correct and the solution to that is to make people sit down or throw them out of the ground and give them a banning order not to reintroduce into our stadiums standing areas again.

Its like murdering somebody and then calling for murder to be made legal because everyone is doing it.


What you are showing me is a picture of a standing area - nothing more and nothing less. Its banned and should never be allowed to return to the top 2 divisions of English football. My opinion and nothing will change that opinion.

Why is it safe in the lower leagues?
 
You havent presented any evidence. Other than citing Germany and Scotland who have absolutely no relevance to this debate I'm struggling too see where there is any evidence of this working in England. Where has this been piloted in the top 2 divisions of English football for us to gain any evidence? nowhere.

What you and others are giving in an opinion and some nice pictures - no more and no less. Thats simply unarguable.
We're arguing for a pilot mate. West Brom got turned down the other day because Parliament are effectively waiting until the Premier League (who are in the middle of an inquiry) agree with the FA and Football League that it should be introduced.

And you've argued the evidence there is irrelevant. We've argued it is relevant because the English culture means nothing when rail seating doesn't enable hooliganism in any way. The terraces did. Rail seating, because it's completely different, doesn't.
 
Ah have thought of one annoying aspect to this, you can't climb down a stand over the seats at the final whistle to get around non moving queues of old fat men down stairs. Might get funny looks doing some waist high hurdling

This. Plus I love standing on the back of my seats, got a good bounce going these days.

We're arguing for a pilot mate. West Brom got turned down the other day because Parliament are effectively waiting until the Premier League (who are in the middle of an inquiry) agree with the FA and Football League that it should be introduced.

And you've argued the evidence there is irrelevant. We've argued it is relevant because the English culture means nothing when rail seating doesn't enable hooliganism in any way.

He's on a wind up.
 
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Where has this been piloted in the top 2 divisions of English football for us to gain any evidence? Nowhere that I know of.
So don't you think it should be piloted somewhere in the top 2 tiers of English football for us to gather evidence.

By your logic, it's not safe because it's never been trialled, but then you never want it to be trialled?
 
Correct and the solution to that is to make people sit down or throw them out of the ground and give them a banning order not to reintroduce into our stadiums standing areas again.

Its like murdering somebody and then calling for murder to be made legal because everyone is doing it.


What you are showing me is a picture of a standing area - nothing more and nothing less. Its banned and should never be allowed to return to the top 2 divisions of English football. My opinion and nothing will change that opinion.
Its not like murdering somebody, people stand at rugby grounds, its even more dangerous having 15000 on a football pitch standing at concerts yet its idiots like yiu that argue its not safe to stand at football when if the correct procedures are in place its actually safer than what is happening now.
 
You havent presented any evidence. Other than citing Germany and Scotland who have absolutely no relevance to this debate I'm struggling too see where there is any evidence of this working in England. Where has this been piloted in the top 2 divisions of English football for us to gain any evidence? Nowhere that I know of.

In fact you and others havent even said why this should happen. why should a football club spend a vast sum of money on remodelling stadiums for no gain or benefit? Its simply not logical.

What you and others are giving in an opinion and some nice pictures - no more and no less. Thats simply unarguable.

why is it safe at the old firm but unsafe for West Brom vs Burnley??

appreciate an answer.
 
You think its funny that football fans died at football grounds involving stadiums with standing areas and English football fans. At 26 years old I'd suggest you have no idea at ll what you are talking about. Youve never stood in a predomionantly standing stadium in the top 2 divisions of English football.

I've lived through all of this with English football, I've seen the body bags tot up and having seen no incidents or body bags at any English football grounds since all seater stadia were introduced I'm absolutely vindicated is taking the stance that I am. There is not one reason - not one - why a standing area should be introduced into the top 2 divisions of english football - not one.

Put it this way, whatever problems english football currently has there is not one solution to any issue that involves the reintroduction of standing.

I'm dead against it, will always be dead against it and having lived through what happened to football fans in standing areas previously I see where it leads to.

Its a massive NO from me.

Well, I am the same sort of age and spent loads of my youth standing on terraces far and wide watching SAFC across the UK. It is not just "young guns" asking for this and you are sounding very much like an old codger who thinks he knows what is best is for everyone here.

I watched the body bags tot up too. But correlation is not causation. Hillsborough was more to do with Thatcher's stupid fences and rank bad stadium management than standing. Heysel was a totally inappropriate crumbling stadium and, yes, the hooligan element of the 80's. Valley Parade was actually a seated stand and some people will have been hindered by the seats in trying to evacuate the stand quick enough. Ibrox (the last one there) was due to the access to the terrace and a late goal rather than the terraces themselves.

You are massively overplaying "The English Disease" here. The hooligans of the 80's were concentrated in a few clubs - Man U, Millwall, West Ham, Birmingham, Leeds spring to mind, and they caused trouble inside grounds, outside grounds, on trains, in seats, in terraces, etc. etc. I stood on old style terraces hundreds of times without incident, in fact my worst experience was in the Roker End, 6th Round v Luton in 1973 due to the surges forward because of the sparse number of barriers.

I cannot see how safe standing with continuous barriers every row could possibly allow for surges or crushes or deliberate mass movement of hooligans etc that could not already happen in existing seats.

Comparing the proposed safe standing arrangements and current "culture" with the arrangements in the ancient stadiums and hooligan culture of the 1980s is comparing chalk and cheese.

I've signed the petition, would love to stand again.
 
Well, I am the same sort of age and spent loads of my youth standing on terraces far and wide watching SAFC across the UK. It is not just "young guns" asking for this and you are sounding very much like an old codger who thinks he knows what is best is for everyone here.

I watched the body bags tot up too. But correlation is not causation. Hillsborough was more to do with Thatcher's stupid fences and rank bad stadium management than standing. Heysel was a totally inappropriate crumbling stadium and, yes, the hooligan element of the 80's. Valley Parade was actually a seated stand and some people will have been hindered by the seats in trying to evacuate the stand quick enough. Ibrox (the last one there) was due to the access to the terrace and a late goal rather than the terraces themselves.

You are massively overplaying "The English Disease" here. The hooligans of the 80's were concentrated in a few clubs - Man U, Millwall, West Ham, Birmingham, Leeds spring to mind, and they caused trouble inside grounds, outside grounds, on trains, in seats, in terraces, etc. etc. I stood on old style terraces hundreds of times without incident, in fact my worst experience was in the Roker End, 6th Round v Luton in 1973 due to the surges forward because of the sparse number of barriers.

I cannot see how safe standing with continuous barriers every row could possibly allow for surges or crushes or deliberate mass movement of hooligans etc that could not already happen in existing seats.

Comparing the proposed safe standing arrangements and current "culture" with the arrangements in the ancient stadiums and hooligan culture of the 1980s is comparing chalk and cheese.

I've signed the petition, would love to stand again.
Aye but.....
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