Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)


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There's not a lot to stop you getting your boots on the ground in Kyiv, but escalation on a national level would lead to european wide, maybe world wide, maybe nuclear, war.

If war is the only way to stop him, then war is inevitable - because he has to be stopped. The pervasive moral cowardice in the West has done nothing but embolden him and make the situation worse. If he'd been stared down ten years ago we wouldn't be in this position.

He does not want war with the West. He clearly fears it. Otherwise Ukraine joining NATO would have been of no significance to him whatsoever. The only significance of NATO membership for Ukraine is that he wouldn't then be able to attack Ukraine without the West declaring war on him. If he didn't fear that war, then Ukraine's membership wouldn't be at all bothersome.
 
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What's the alternative? Just keep walking backwards until the fucker is on our doorstep?
No, he won't attack NATO territory. Hes struggled against Ukrainians with small arms and molotov cocktails (somewhat over simplified I know), he knows what would happen against the most powerful military force on earth
 
I’d be interested to know what China thought of his comments the other day re mobilising his nuclear forces. For all of China’s war of words with the West over Taiwan they don’t make Nuclear threats.

When he makes comments like that, or if he escalates them, he is directing them at the West but threatening every country. It’s a Global planet and there would be no isolation for any country from the impacts and effects if the World ever sees further nuclear weapon use.

If he keeps ratching up the threats and/or their own intelligence starts to get inklings he is a bit unhinged then he is a threat to even his staunchest rivals - China, India, Pakistan, Arab coubtries, and their attitudes might change sharpish
Asked what China would think of a nuclear strike and retaliation the other day but it got lost with the thread moving so fast. Wouldn't be good for their markets really would it.
 
The madman look is s confection I would say -
....to keep the west guessing and on edge

Katherine Belton - A Reuters reporter and Putin writer / expert - said on Newsnight last night that it's theatre and to get to a nuclear button VP would need to go through seversl ranks of military Generals - who all know it would be suicide for them & families - and therefore they would never allow it.

I think Putin is solely fixated with Ukraine - and not the rest of Europe per se

To defeat our enemy we need to understand him first- western politicians have failed miserably in that quest

UK journo / vicar Nigel Fraser gives us an insight here into the religious significance of Kiev to Putin and how is own religious ideas are driving him on

Sorry if this was already posted


This. For all of the talk of "nuclear war" (which our own politicians play up, for their own convenience), it's a vanishingly small possibility. Putin doesn't just have a red button on his desk. This isn't a Bond film. Even if he was mad enough to effectively sentence his own family to death, the Russian military officer class wouldn't be willing to do the same en masse. That order would be the end of him.
 
Most times in life you do. And I never said otherwise.

But people are complex. Most people consistently do good and bad, not one or the other.

Were Russia goodies or baddies in WW2? They stopped the biggest unequivocal baddie in world History pretty much. But many of the things they did to accomplish that were unequivocally bad by pretty much any moral compass.
I agree. This time they are 100% baddies. Imho, of course.
 
This. For all of the talk of "nuclear war" (which our own politicians play up, for their own convenience), it's a vanishingly small possibility. Putin doesn't just have a red button on his desk. This isn't a Bond film. Even if he was mad enough to effectively sentence his own family to death, the Russian military officer class wouldn't be willing to do the same en masse. That order would be the end of him.
Let's all hope you are right.
 
Serious question: what happens if he is captured and killed? Is that an act of escalation in terms of Western intervention?
You might find this a rather strange reply but I believe that if the Russians killed Zelenskyy they would be totally disowned by the Chinese. China regards the West as being just as mad a a box of frogs as we do them. They are extremely worried that this could get out of hand with Russia and NATO and want an end to it. The killing of Zelenskyy with who the Russians will have to negotiate will be seen by the Chinese as not helping and that it is likely to escalate things. (they may have even warned the Russians of that)

China has offered help both sides reach a settlement and they about the only people the Russians will listen to, China is also the only country capable of helpin to alieviate some of the financial mess Russsia no has. The time for the Russian to dispose of Zelenskyy as the threatened to do was in the first few hours of the invasion now it's far too late.

It's clear that none of this is going to the Russian plan. They do have the miliary means to overrun Ukranian cities but its taking them a hell of a long time to do it. You can see what the Russians thought would take hours is going to take some days yet and even then they are going to be faced with a NATO arms supplied insurgency. Putin might not think so but I bet quite a few in the military believe that the need to get out
 
If war is the only way to stop him, then war is inevitable - because he has to be stopped. The pervasive moral cowardice in the West has done nothing but embolden him and make the situation worse. If he'd been stared down ten years ago we wouldn't be in this position.

He does not want war with the West. He clearly fears it. Otherwise Ukraine joining NATO would have been of no significance to him whatsoever. The only significance of NATO membership for Ukraine is that he wouldn't then be able to attack Ukraine without the West declaring war on him. If he didn't fear that war, then Ukraine's membership wouldn't be at all bothersome.

Are you serving in the military? Itll be absoloutely devestating if we put boots on the ground. British sons and daughters will die by the thousands and itll drag on for a decade. It is not a light decision.
 
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This. For all of the talk of "nuclear war" (which our own politicians play up, for their own convenience), it's a vanishingly small possibility. Putin doesn't just have a red button on his desk. This isn't a Bond film. Even if he was mad enough to effectively sentence his own family to death, the Russian military officer class wouldn't be willing to do the same en masse. That order would be the end of him.

The USA launch system is far more direct. He literally has a button & also the executive power to replace any official who won't concur. Russia is more decentralised (which has its own risks).
Are you serving in the military? Itll be absoloutely devestating if we put boots on the ground. British sons and daughters will die by the thousands and itll drag on for a decade. It is not a light decision.

Would almost certainly escalate to nukes. As soon as one side knows they're losing they'll use em. To declare war allows Putin to say he was right.
 
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The NATO bombing killed about 1,000 members of the Yugoslav security forces in addition to between 489 and 528 civilians. It destroyed or damaged bridges, industrial plants, hospitals, schools, cultural monuments, private businesses as well as barracks and military installations.

Why are you directing this at me? I haven’t made any comment on Yugoslavia.


Just because hospitals and schools have been bombed does not mean they're occupied by civilians, it also doesn't rule out them being occupied by enemy forces. I wouldn't put much stock in Victoria Derbyshire or the BBC, they clearly have their point of view. As highlighted previously contrast the western media to RT. RT are stating Ukrainians are killing civilians, whereas the Western media are saying Russia are killing civilians. No doubt both sides are, as an unfortunate consequence of the conflict, is it systematic and top down?, I highly doubt it.

Look, I’m really confused and quite frustrated at your continuation of this charade now. Why are you still trying to defend Russia? Why are you continuing to attempt to justify the killing of civilians?

The ICC have now opened an investigation into War Crimes, at the request of 38 (thirty eight) seperate governments, because they believe such crimes have been committed.


@Beery said it right, so I refer you to his post and implore you to read the words and think about which side of history you are prepared to fall on:

Ive noticed a few posters looking for justification and using terms collateral damage for civilian deaths. In this conflict, one side has been the aggressor and invaded the other. It was not a joint decision to go to war with each other.

Its not acceptable, IMHO, to dismiss or justify civilian casualties like this, as its not like the 2 sides have gone to war with objectives against each other, where you can say "oh well that's the price you pay for your objective".
 
Asked what China would think of a nuclear strike and retaliation the other day but it got lost with the thread moving so fast. Wouldn't be good for their markets really would it.

Markets?

Depending on the scale of it it would be anything from a generational catastrophe to China to an existential threat for China (As it would be for all of us). Not because he is going to ever aim them but it doesn’t need a huge amount of powerful modern nuclear weapons to create a nuclear autumn or nuclear winter.

We are miles away from that and hopefully always will be but If Putin starts to genuinely make overtures of using nukes or if their intelligence is that he is losing the plot then he is a massive threat to China by proxy. Same with India, Pakistan and every other country that supports him.
 
was just on flightradar24 and saw this US military Blackhawk (DUKE41 i think) which has just landed about 5 kms from the polish/ukraine border. looks like it's landed now as it's off the radar but this is the link to the last location (where the church is, right by the road that leads to the border)

 
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