Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)


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You know exactly what I'm saying. Who are Russia, or anyone, to say what Ukraine can or cannot do? Why do you wish to deny autonomy to the Ukrainian state and want to use it as a pawn to appease Russia?

Because that's how the world works in reality. Henry Kissinger — 'America has no permanent friends or enemies, only interests'.

Imagine getting Ukraine's application to join NATO:

Pros: ???
Cons: Will probably cause war with Russia leading to thousands of deaths and possible escalation as far as a nuclear conflict (and this isn't hindsight, people have been predicting this for years).

Play your cards right and Ukraine becomes a stable, neutral country acting as a buffer between NATO and Russia and you strengthen relations with Russia. And if Russia did invade a neutral Ukraine that was not going to join NATO (which it would have no reason to) then you haven't really lost anything, we'd still be in the same situation we are now.
 
I’d like to hear that story.

It’s in the public domain so. I think there was a TV documentary or dramatisation about it. New York Times article on the case. There’s more on the story including other articles about him meeting the Russians in Epping Forest etc… My wife said he was a lovely man (Aside from you know, selling submarine secrets to the Soviets…)


He changed his name but this is a story about his death. No comment on it being an ‘accident’ but anyone familiar with 1980’s Volvo’s probably knows they don’t typically just veer off the road and explode…

If you didn’t know the story I doubt anyone would ever link the two.


Might have to keep an eye on the wife actually, throw a few Russian names out and check for a reaction…
 
I read somewhere (and this could be shite) that there was always one out on patrol and another one was always ready to go should it be required. Out of the other two, one would be undergoing maintenance and I cant remember what the other one was
The other one is rented out by the Tory party for parties with oligarchs
 
Ukraine doesn’t exist to “keep Russia happy”.

41 million people in Ukraine have the right to determine their own future, and if that future is as part of a defensive alliance of free democratic nations - which they voluntarily want to enter in to - that is the end of the matter. There is no “but Russia…..” side of that story. Russia has no jurisdiction over Ukraine and no right to determine Ukraine’s future. Putin’s opinion isn’t relevant to it. He doesn’t get a vote. He’s president of Russia, not Ukraine, and it’s therefore none of his f***ing business.

The only “consequence” of Ukraine joining NATO is that no other country would then be able to attack Ukraine, without all NATO allies responding. NATO is not an aggressive alliance. It only responds if a member is attacked. Therefore - anyone who fears NATO must have pre-emptive aggressive intent. Anyone with pre-emptive aggressive intent can’t be allowed to set the agenda for others.

So again, in summary, fuck Putin. He needs to fail, and be seen to have failed. There is no sharing of the blame for this. This isn’t a “two sides to every story” situation. It’s very much good v bad.

We don't see NATO as an aggressive alliance - Russia does. Whether they're right or wrong doesn't matter, you can't just ignore their position and think there'll be no consequences.
 
Not strictly relevent but if you look on the internet there's been plenty of accusations of rape/sexual assaults from girls about that youtuber. He's said some questionable things about how it's women's fault for getting raped in India on videos he's had to delete and him and two others stood trial for rape in 2001 but the case collapsed on a technicality because the girl couldn't identify which two of the three raped her.
 
We don't see NATO as an aggressive alliance - Russia does. Whether they're right or wrong doesn't matter, you can't just ignore their position and think there'll be no consequences.

Yes, we very much can ignore it. The reason we can ignore it is because - as already stated - Russia has no jurisdiction in Ukrian and no right whatsoever to dictate to the Ukrainian people. Pandering to Russian lunacy is what got us here.

The idea that if we’d only cut back on NATO, Putin would have gone back to his twin loves of crochet and world peace is for the birds.
 
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