Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)


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I have already answered this in other posts. You would need to know what assurances were made to Russia, by NATO, regarding their intentions towards Ukraine. Also what diplomacy there has been leading up to the invasion. Given they have been able to dish out some severe punishment to Russia, from the off, I am not sure I agree that they were peace loving under the surface. I would say more than meets the eye. But then I suppose, given 2014, that would be expected.
Blah blah blah.

Here's what the legally binding language in the Budapest Memorandum says:

"The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine..." (Art. 2)
 
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Given the popular attitude in Belarus towards Lukashenko and Putin, are they absolutely sure which side the Belarussian army will fight for once it's sent in?
. 52% of the populists might fight to save themselves from the EU Gestapo. 🤔
 
You mean Syrian army?
When the possibility of this was raised the other day I felt that it was unlikely as it would provoke a response by the Yanks against Assad in Syria. Some people kindly pointed out that the Civil war in Syria was still going on . I was aware of that but it has been at a stalemate for 18 months and the level of violence has decreased quite some degree with the various sides more or less just defending the territory that they had control over,

If Assad thinks he has troops or volunteers to spare from that war then I think that it is highly likely that the US will now ochestrate an increase in military action against him in Syria. For obvious reasons Assad may not be able to expect as much help from his Russian friends as he has in the past. By drawing attention to himself in this way he could have made a very big mistake as the US would bemore than happy to get back at him & Putin
 
Blah blah blah.

Here's what the legally binding language in the Budapest Memorandum says:

"The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine..." (Art. 2)

;)
 
What arms, training by NATO Forces and other support have been going in to Ireland?

Why am I being asked whether I support the Russian invasion?
Where have I said that I do? Why is calling for full context the same as supporting the invasion?

Whether I accept Ukraine's right to this or that is irrelevant. In theory I do, of course. But in practice, is it that simple? If it was that simple, I don't think we would be witnessing these events. So I ask you, has Ukraine been badly advised? Would it have been better to avoid war or not? Did NATO go vmback on any previous assurances it had communicated to Russia?

Are you aware that Putin described the west as an evil empire? You mention the civilian deaths in other places. It's been alleged that the total amount of deaths attributable to the wars post 9/11 is 380,000 (in 20 years). I would have to check whether that is all deaths or just civilian deaths.

All kinds of the untold misery has resulted from these interventions. But apparently it was OK - because it was against 'dictators'. Some of whom had been built up in the first place, by the west, because it suited their aims at the time!

Fair play to you for sticking by your guns re Myanmar. But what about China?

I agree, I cannot believe their intelligence has been so shit. They have been savaged.

NATO is a defensive alliance. So it provides no threat. Putin may be paranoid it does but that’s his problem.

Because you haven’t said you don’t support the invasion. As has been discussed the context is a distraction none of which justifies invading a functioning democratic country. Just answer the question and we can both move on: do you think the invasion was wrong?

Yes it’s that simple. Ukraine were a free country. There is no justification for a normal democratic government in Ukraine having to make decisions based on what Russia likes or doesn’t. That is bullying from Russia. If Russia doesn’t like Ukraine wanting to join the EU and NATO that is not Ukraine’s problem. Russia chose to invade because they couldn’t accept it. It’s the fault of Russia. You sound like a domestic abuse perpetrator “she was warned if she saw her friend last night I would smash her skull but someone gave her bad advice”. Stop victim blaming: it was Russia’s choice to invade.

I didn’t say the misery and death was OK. They are not. Was getting rid of Saddam the right thing to do? Yes. Was the way we managed and dealt with the aftermath and ruined the country, causing suffering and destabilising the region more? No, of course not. No one can justify the mess Iraq was left in. But that is a different thing from the rationale for intervening in the first place. But, in Syria we chose not to intervene and it is in a worse mess than Iraq. Who knows if we would have made Syria more or less of a mess.

Yup, I would support UN troops in China protecting the Uighurs and any other persecuted minorities. Same way I would send UN into the US if Trump or someone started a violent purge of women, LGBTQ+, black and Latinx groups in the same way China, Myanmar (and increasingly Modi in India) do or Saddam and the Taliban did. I would also support regime change in Hungary, Eritrea, etc. It is simple: I support freedom and democracy and hate tyranny and oppression and will be on the side of freedom in any conflict against tyranny and oppression.
 
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US suggesting that Ukraine have still got most of their Air Force but are holding it in reserve. There are signs they have been targeting Russian air defences with drones and also captured a lot of the better ones.

If so good strategic decision as might be able to bring them back in at some point if they degrade Russia’s AD enough. Send them up at the moment and likely just cannon fodder

 
It is how I like to do it. It is one of the things I like most about being incredibly well educated and informed.

I like the ability to rapidly identify fact from falsehood and to interpret information. Just wish everyone could do it.

Equally, when it is clear or even just a possibility that false information is being given by politicians or that media report is misleading or fake news I like being able to research the data and fact check.

Must be very strange being in your head. When the news says “it is 7am on Friday 11th March” do you go on a Reddit forum to discuss whether it really is 7am on Friday 11th March or if the ‘globalist MSM’ are lying for some unknown purpose?
Don't resort to being patronising, you're embarrassing yourself.
 
Don't resort to being patronising, you're embarrassing yourself.
I will resort to it. Normal people are fed up with conspiracy theory nutters and patronising them is what they deserve. If you can’t readily understand which things are blatantly true, which are debatable and need research and thought, and which are blatantly lies then you also deserve patronising.
 
I will resort to it. Normal people are fed up with conspiracy theory nutters and patronising them is what they deserve. If you can’t readily understand which things are blatantly true, which are debatable and need research and thought, and which are blatantly lies then you also deserve patronising.
'Normal' people are fed up are they, are you the voice of the 'normal' people? I asked how we know US funded labs didn't exist and your response is that the earth isn't flat and vaccines work. I don't see how asking a question has anything to do with any conspiracy theory nor being a nutter to be honest.
 
'Normal' people are fed up are they, are you the voice of the 'normal' people? I asked how we know US funded labs didn't exist and your response is that the earth isn't flat and vaccines work. I don't see how asking a question has anything to do with any conspiracy theory nor being a nutter to be honest.
Here's the problem: of all the places in the world that the US could put bioweapons labs - within its own borders, within its own allied states like NATO, within friendly EU places - why would it put them in a volatile country that has switched between pro-Russian and pro-Western governments several times, and then for good measure stick them in the Russian-leaning areas of the country where they are most vulnerable to capture or espionage?

It's an incredible enough assertion that the burden of proof weighs rather heavily on one side and it's hard to take seriously someone who asks that the side not bearing the burden of proof somehow prove a negative.
 
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Here's the problem: of all the places in the world that the US could put bioweapons labs - within its own borders, within its own allied states like NATO, within friendly EU places - why would it put them in a volatile country that has switched between pro-Russian and pro-Western governments several times, and then for good measure stick them in the Russian-leaning areas of the country where they are most vulnerable to capture or espionage?

It's an incredible enough assertion that the burden of proof weighs rather heavily on one side and it's hard to take seriously someone who asks that the side not bearing the burden of proof somehow prove a negative.
To be honest I genuinely thought I'd seen a comment where after denying it they had then admitted funded labs but I can't seem to find where that was - potentially within this thread via SM- but I can't find anything else. So yeah a mistake on my part.
 
'Normal' people are fed up are they, are you the voice of the 'normal' people? I asked how we know US funded labs didn't exist and your response is that the earth isn't flat and vaccines work. I don't see how asking a question has anything to do with any conspiracy theory nor being a nutter to be honest.
You would have to be a conspiracy nutjob or just plain dumb as shit to even countenance the notion that the US would be funding biolabs in Ukraine for military or nefarious purposes.

Do they have pharmaceutical, biotech or biofuel plants there? I don’t know, maybe, but it’s irrelevant, most countries do. Are America funding bio weapons or diseases? The whole idea is laughable.
 
The Russians are giving the impression that their strategic desire to have a neutral state on their border was/is non-negotiable. They did not want any further eastward expansion of NATO infrastructure. They also claim that crimes against Russian speaking people's in the east of Ukraine were/are not being reported in western media. I do not know what the veracity of these claims are. They may be exaggerating the danger and impact of a a right wing element in Ukraine, which I think had Nazi units during WWII.
why single out ukraine? there were quite a few countries had nazi sympathisers.
 
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