Russia invading Ukraine (NEWS/UPDATES)


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tracking that one now

EDIT - Twitter suggests it's off to Moldova
Maybe Antony Blinken is off to Moldova for talks? He's been in Poland today.

 
There isn’t a “no fly zone in place. Quite a few military aircraft have crossed Ukraines eastern borders:


There is always radar, sonar, etc etc

Now you can answer my question, that you’ve just dodged again.
Radar and sonar can detect planes in the no fly zone. But enforcing it would need the arbiter of the nfz (ie NATO) to provide planes to enforce it. You know that.
 
By all means.

The implication of your reply to me is that you don’t want allied action against Russia, for fear that Russia may launch a nuclear weapon. The logical extension of that is surely that Putin would effectively have carte blanche to do almost anything anywhere - as an argument could least be made that allowing him to do [whatever it is], would be better than a nuclear exchange.

To put it another way - what sort of situation would need to develop, before “just in case” became a risk we should take?
I don't know what you mean by just in case. You've introduced that phrase and it seems to mean something to you, but nothing to me.

I have never implied taking no action; I don't know why you have inferred that. I am suggesting declaring war on Russia, which is what shooting down one of their planes amounts to, is a terrible idea as it would be us starting ww3.
 
i do, and i'm not sure its the panacea that people appear to think it is

for reasons that i cant quite fathom (Russian ineptitude maybe) - Ukraine appear to be doing very well in the air part of this war

a no-fly zone means enforcing a keep out for both sides, no planes, no drones (no missiles??) - if you try to be sneaky and enforce it for one side only then you've gone from escalation, to f*ck me escalation

a one-sided no-fly zone is'nt a no-fly zone, its a declaration of war

The Ukrainians have stated they believe they can win a ground war but want an NFZ because airstrikes are getting too much. That’s why they want an NFZ.
 
I don't know what you mean by just in case. You've introduced that phrase and it seems to mean something to you, but nothing to me.

I have never implied taking no action; I don't know why you have inferred that. I am suggesting declaring war on Russia, which is what shooting down one of their planes amounts to, is a terrible idea as it would be us starting ww3.

Ok so to reduce this down to the most basic underlying principle - what sort of situation would, in your view, warrant that sort of escalation? Where’s the line and why?
 
So the Russians will know they are there, it's just private individuals following planes on the likes of flight radar that won't? What about civilian aircraft?
if transponders are on then everyone knows where you're at

if they're off then you only know whos around you by turning on your radar, but the other side can detect your radar emissions - so if you can see them then they can see you (we'll ignore stealth in this case)

so the trick is to have an AWACS flying around (those rivet-joint planes you might have seen) - they'll be continually scanning on their radars and feeding locations of everything they find to friendlies via datalink - which is why if you see one of those on flightradar you should be wondering how many buddies does he have flying with him with their transponders off

and yes, civilian aircraft will have basic radar
 
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