RR Roker Roundup: Sunderland Head of Recruitment Tony Coton speaks on transfers - loans incoming?



kildaremackem said:
why? better than the guy who did it last year ot the year beforw i think..

how do you know its not?
If you actually read the article, he says he went to the meeting to find out about what players are on..that means he isnt going there to find players..so that means there is another string to the bow..the one that helps find players..

see not complicated at all..
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Because every last bit of our recruitment has been built on contacts thus far. From donald lauding Coton for his contacts after last summers window, our overreliance on Wigan and NW based players to Coton proclaiming that ‘he had a player’ in January and turning up with Sterling. From the fact that our signings don’t tend to stand out as statistical high performers to the fact that Donald only this week talked about how we were getting players by pricing other clubs out of deals rather than by finding contributors who are only known by the few who look a bit deeper. There is no evidence whatsoever that our club is at the cutting edge of recruitment. None. Promotion won’t alter that. We’re just spending more than other clubs. So you can crawl up their arses as much as you like. This lot aren’t innovators. That will bite us in the arse eventually - unless they wise up.
 
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The Cabbage said:
Because every last bit of our recruitment has been built on contacts thus far. From donald lauding Coton for his contacts after last summers window, our overreliance on Wigan and NW based players to Coton proclaiming that ‘he had a player’ in January and turning up with Sterling. From the fact that our signings don’t tend to stand out as statistical high performers to the fact that Donald only this week talked about how we were getting players by pricing other clubs out of deals rather than by finding contributors who are only known by the few who look a bit deeper. There is no evidence whatsoever that our club is at the cutting edge of recruitment. None. Promotion won’t alter that. We’re just spending more than other clubs. So you can crawl up their arses as much as you like. This lot aren’t innovators. That will bite us in the arse eventually - unless they wise up.
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again..how do you know its contacts? stirling plays for spurs..what contaacts does coton have at spurs?
he has contacts at wigan for sure, but not spurs. There is a logic to signing players from wigan..they won this league...so tjhe players are good enough in thie league..
Onien is arguably the best value of the sigings we paid moeny for...he came from wycombe..what contacts does TC have at wycombe?
Black Cat Gypsy said:
Huddersfield went from League One to the Premier League and will be in a league higher than us. Of course they are an example to us.
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as a short term example yes..but not a long term model-they acked the manager that got the success and now the owner has fucked off...not a proper model at all..
 
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kildaremackem said:
again..how do you know its contacts? stirling plays for spurs..what contaacts does coton have at spurs?
he has contacts at wigan for sure, but not spurs. There is a logic to signing players from wigan..they won this league...so tjhe players are good enough in thie league..
Onien is arguably the best value of the sigings we paid moeny for...he came from wycombe..what contacts does TC have at wycombe?
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Once again you continue with facile points. “Wigan won the league therefore anyone we buy from Wigan will be good enough”. I really hope that you aren’t Charlie Methven because if that is the level of football understanding we’ve got at Safc we’ve got serious problems. As for Sterling, I’d suggest you take it up with your fave. He was the one who said Coton had the player lined up.

There is nothing about Sunderland’s business under Donald that indicates we are being forward thinking in the way we recruit. Not a thing. Now you can continue to obfuscate because there hasn’t been an article that specifically states we’re doing things in an old school manner as much as you like. I couldn’t care less for your opinion on this. How we work is evidenced by everything we do, everyone we buy and everything Donald et al say. Until any of those things change, I’m more than comfortable with my point of view.
 
kildaremackem said:
huddersfield arent much of an example to anyone..but i agree norwhich are a good example...and show that you dont need to spend big to get promotion..
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Over the last few years Huddersfield have been promoted to the Premier League, stayed up then came down with an improved playing squad, a healthier bank balance and a much improved reputation. Literally the opposite of our last few seasons
 
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kildaremackem said:
again..how do you know its contacts? stirling plays for spurs..what contaacts does coton have at spurs?
he has contacts at wigan for sure, but not spurs. There is a logic to signing players from wigan..they won this league...so tjhe players are good enough in thie league..
Onien is arguably the best value of the sigings we paid moeny for...he came from wycombe..what contacts does TC have at wycombe?

as a short term example yes..but not a long term model-they acked the manager that got the success and now the owner has fucked off...not a proper model at all..
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At the time we were told at the time that Sterling was on his way to WBA only for Tony Davidison called in a favour from Spurs. I still cringe at SD telling us he rang up Chris Wilder asking if he was planning moving any players out! Signing players from Wigan because they won the League One twice in 3 years is ridiculous and I hope that isn't the clubs thinking!! If that is the case then Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs should sign any players from Man City or Chelsea that are surplus to requirments because they won the league!
 
Black Cat Gypsy said:
Not really. Clubs who have a clear plan and model usually succeed. Take Norwich as an example. They changed their whole approach. They appointed a Sporting Director to run the whole football department. They sold Maddison for £20m and reinvested £5.5m (less than what we spent last season) on new players. They knew the English market wasn't good value for money so they decided to scout the Dutch and German leagues looking for players. It's the same as Huddersfield and Southampton.
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The original post said that Luton and Barnsley got promotion ahead of us because of their superior scouting system which was certainly simplistic No-one mentioned Norwich or Huddersfield or Southampton
 
sheepfarmer said:
The original post said that Luton and Barnsley got promotion ahead of us because of their superior scouting system which was certainly simplistic No-one mentioned Norwich or Huddersfield or Southampton
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They recruited better than us just like Charlton did. They bought players to fit a system and style of play. We just signed players by reputation.
 
Black Cat Gypsy said:
They recruited better than us just like Charlton did. They bought players to fit a system and style of play. We just signed players by reputation.
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i think thats true yes...my point was while the quality of their recruitment was better than ours, how do you know the method was different? Mick Harford was literally at the same event as Coton..
Charlton did an outstanding job...have very little in the way of resource...couldnt fill a bench for the first game against us...dot have a DOF or anything like that..and comfortbaly outperfomed us.
 
Black Cat Gypsy said:
At the time we were told at the time that Sterling was on his way to WBA only for Tony Davidison called in a favour from Spurs. I still cringe at SD telling us he rang up Chris Wilder asking if he was planning moving any players out! Signing players from Wigan because they won the League One twice in 3 years is ridiculous and I hope that isn't the clubs thinking!! If that is the case then Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs should sign any players from Man City or Chelsea that are surplus to requirments because they won the league!
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liverpool signed milner on that basis..chelsea signed drinkwater after leicester won the league..man city signed mahrez after leicester won the league..chelsea signed kante on that basis..
sheepfarmer said:
The suggestion was that we signed ALL our players that way which was patently not true
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not all but sadly a majority/,,
 
kildaremackem said:
liverpool signed milner on that basis..chelsea signed drinkwater after leicester won the league..man city signed mahrez after leicester won the league..chelsea signed kante on that basis..

not all but sadly a majority/,,
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No they didn't. They signed because they thought they would add to the team they already had and fit into the system they play.
 
Black Cat Gypsy said:
No they didn't. They signed because they thought they would add to the team they already had and fit into the system they play.
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yes..but they were worng about some of them..
several of those players arent first choice..
kante is played in a different role to the one he did at leictester..sae as we play grigg in a different role..

you dont get that Im agreeing wih oyu that our scouting was shit..my point is simply that I dont knw if our rivals are doing the same method as us, but better, or a different method, you are saying its the latter but not backing it up.
Mick Harford is not known for his commitment to modern methods, he was at the same exact event as coton...he might be better at doing the thing both he nad coton do..but using the same mehtod.

To fix a problem..you must undertnad its root cause..just changing the perosnlle achhieves fuck all..thats why safcare so fucked..we kept changing manager without changing metod..
 
The Cabbage said:
Because every last bit of our recruitment has been built on contacts thus far. From donald lauding Coton for his contacts after last summers window, our overreliance on Wigan and NW based players to Coton proclaiming that ‘he had a player’ in January and turning up with Sterling. From the fact that our signings don’t tend to stand out as statistical high performers to the fact that Donald only this week talked about how we were getting players by pricing other clubs out of deals rather than by finding contributors who are only known by the few who look a bit deeper. There is no evidence whatsoever that our club is at the cutting edge of recruitment. None. Promotion won’t alter that. We’re just spending more than other clubs. So you can crawl up their arses as much as you like. This lot aren’t innovators. That will bite us in the arse eventually - unless they wise up.
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Heard this same shit all before from other owners, managers, coach'es ,hangers on , whoever.......totally agree with you...
 
The Cabbage said:
Once again you continue with facile points. “Wigan won the league therefore anyone we buy from Wigan will be good enough”. I really hope that you aren’t Charlie Methven because if that is the level of football understanding we’ve got at Safc we’ve got serious problems. As for Sterling, I’d suggest you take it up with your fave. He was the one who said Coton had the player lined up.

There is nothing about Sunderland’s business under Donald that indicates we are being forward thinking in the way we recruit. Not a thing. Now you can continue to obfuscate because there hasn’t been an article that specifically states we’re doing things in an old school manner as much as you like. I couldn’t care less for your opinion on this. How we work is evidenced by everything we do, everyone we buy and everything Donald et al say. Until any of those things change, I’m more than comfortable with my point of view.
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he didnt say coton had the player lined up..he said a different person at the club did...
our recruitment has been shit..no doubt..or at least it was last year..there are better signs this year..
but luton have mick harford in charge and went up..he isnt an innovator..

i hope we become innovators..we have been under any owners..going back to murray quinny and short, as wella s the current lot, the safc has been horrendously run..thats why we are in the state we are..

I dont have a ;lot of faith in these owners to make better football deicsions,..becausde SD has shown at previous clubs he cant do that..but most of our fans just how and whaile for more money to hbe spent and threaten the ownrs children if he doesnt spend it...thats not an incentive for him to innovate..

but the view we didnt go up last year because of not being innovative is demonstrably bollox..our rivals werent innovative either..your veiw we get prlayers by pricing others out is bollox because thats the one thing we dont do..we haggle like fuck and have signed a lot of players for nowt..while cutting the wage bill..
 
kildaremackem said:
he didnt say coton had the player lined up..he said a different person at the club did...
our recruitment has been shit..no doubt..or at least it was last year..there are better signs this year..
but luton have mick harford in charge and went up..he isnt an innovator..

i hope we become innovators..we have been under any owners..going back to murray quinny and short, as wella s the current lot, the safc has been horrendously run..thats why we are in the state we are..

I dont have a ;lot of faith in these owners to make better football deicsions,..becausde SD has shown at previous clubs he cant do that..but most of our fans just how and whaile for more money to hbe spent and threaten the ownrs children if he doesnt spend it...thats not an incentive for him to innovate..

but the view we didnt go up last year because of not being innovative is demonstrably bollox..our rivals werent innovative either..your veiw we get prlayers by pricing others out is bollox because thats the one thing we dont do..we haggle like fuck and have signed a lot of players for nowt..while cutting the wage bill..
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He said the other day that we got a player before champ clubs (presumably Willis) by spending big wages.

My point isn’t about whether we would have gone up last season had we been more forward thinking - though it would no doubt have helped. The point is that by doing what we did last season (the utterly moronic plan of buying players who’ve been promoted before and our generally old-school, low intelligence approach) we’ve wasted a year in which we could have developed a vision and way of working that could sustain us all the way up the leagues. Now we’re up against a hard deadline to get up with a bloated squad of players who we will struggle to shift - and who still don’t provide brilliant value for money or saleability. Donald has undoubtedly done great things with the financial side but he failed in setting a football vision for the club. That is a key part of his job as chairman - and will affect both his ability to extract profit in the future and our fortunes on the pitch.
 
The Cabbage said:
He said the other day that we got a player before champ clubs (presumably Willis) by spending big wages.

My point isn’t about whether we would have gone up last season had we been more forward thinking - though it would no doubt have helped. The point is that by doing what we did last season (the utterly moronic plan of buying players who’ve been promoted before and our generally old-school, low intelligence approach) we’ve wasted a year in which we could have developed a vision and way of working that could sustain us all the way up the leagues. Now we’re up against a hard deadline to get up with a bloated squad of players who we will struggle to shift - and who still don’t provide brilliant value for money or saleability. Donald has undoubtedly done great things with the financial side but he failed in setting a football vision for the club. That is a key part of his job as chairman - and will affect both his ability to extract profit in the future and our fortunes on the pitch.
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but your making satuff up now you dont know its old school or at least you dont know if its more old school than our rivals..what the fuck is a football vision? and why would he be setng it? surely its the fiotball deoartment that sets that? steqwrat donald didnt decide to sign willis,,do you want a chairman who overrules the manager?

Willis has been a good signing so far..
 

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