[roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusions


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Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

Very flawed or one-sided argument tbh. Plenty of mentions of unhappiness with Bruce etc but no mention that several players have recently come out and stated that Bruce is the reason they've signed, Larsson, Bentdner etc.
As for Angeleri, seen him several times including pre-season in Portugal, ressies, Notts County cup-tie etc, and the lad is woeful, nowhere near the pace and tactically inept, looked way out of his depth. If that's what he's like in training on a daily basis I'd be gutted to see him anywhere near the first team.
There's a mention of Bardsley's new contract, he's on £35k per week as recently mentioned in a court case where his earnings were revealed. A lot of money, admittedly, but a lot less than other squad members when compared with Steed, Ringo, Bent, Cana, Anton, etc etc. And considering he was our player of the year last season, how can it be argued others are worth more?
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

Very flawed or one-sided argument tbh. Plenty of mentions of unhappiness with Bruce etc but no mention that several players have recently come out and stated that Bruce is the reason they've signed, Larsson, Bentdner etc.
As for Angeleri, seen him several times including pre-season in Portugal, ressies, Notts County cup-tie etc, and the lad is woeful, nowhere near the pace and tactically inept, looked way out of his depth. If that's what he's like in training on a daily basis I'd be gutted to see him anywhere near the first team.
There's a mention of Bardsley's new contract, he's on £35k per week as recently mentioned in a court case where his earnings were revealed. A lot of money, admittedly, but a lot less than other squad members when compared with Steed, Ringo, Bent, Cana, Anton, etc etc. And considering he was our player of the year last season, how can it be argued others are worth more?

He got that contract before won PoTY award though.

Regarding players saying Bruce was a factor why they signed - are they not just a convenient sound bite for the club? Little bit of propaganda? To be honest, nearly all these 'new signing' interviews are always the same no matter what club they sign for. Always say nice things about the fans and the manager etc.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

He got that contract before won PoTY award though.

Regarding players saying Bruce was a factor why they signed - are they not just a convenient sound bite for the club? Little bit of propaganda? To be honest, nearly all these 'new signing' interviews are always the same no matter what club they sign for. Always say nice things about the fans and the manager etc.

I quite enjoyed the article - plenty of it could be true. But, what you're saying there seems wrong - Larsson and Bendtner have now signed for Bruce twice which is surely proof enough that they like him. Actions speak louder etc etc I've also heard Robbie Savage say very good things about SB on 606 and he sounds genuine enough.
All this means is some like him and some don't though! It'd be ok if we didn't keep losing star strikers.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

He got that contract before won PoTY award though.

Regarding players saying Bruce was a factor why they signed - are they not just a convenient sound bite for the club? Little bit of propaganda? To be honest, nearly all these 'new signing' interviews are always the same no matter what club they sign for. Always say nice things about the fans and the manager etc.

So he got a fat contract and went on to play really well and not just sit back and take the money, surely to be lauded?

It's not just the new signings, Anton didn't want to leave as was really happy and Bramble came out this week in support of Bruce and he's another that's signed for him twice so he's obviously got something that some players like.

Quite simply, the ones who are saying there's a problem are the same ones leaving for more money, bit too much of a coincidence and easy for them to try and blame other things to try and cover up their greediness.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

I quite enjoyed the article - plenty of it could be true. But, what you're saying there seems wrong - Larsson and Bendtner have now signed for Bruce twice which is surely proof enough that they like him. Actions speak louder etc etc I've also heard Robbie Savage say very good things about SB on 606 and he sounds genuine enough.
All this means is some like him and some don't though! It'd be ok if we didn't keep losing star strikers.

Very fair points.

I don't question Bruce's ability to manage a football club, I just question whether or not he can do it at this level and manage top players. I still don't really consider the sound-bite style interviews to be especially credible, but as you point out the fact that the likes of Larsson, Bramble, Bendtner, and Cattermole are willing to play for him again suggests he is capable.

But despite that I don't think the fact that losing important players to strange moves being a recurring theme under Bruce can be ignored. May be it is just a case of him being a decent manager, but one who struggles to handle the challenges of managing top players so not quite good enough. Either way, I personally think it's become a little too difficult to offer him the benefit of any doubt.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

Very fair points.

I don't question Bruce's ability to manage a football club, I just question whether or not he can do it at this level and manage top players. I still don't really consider the sound-bite style interviews to be especially credible, but as you point out the fact that the likes of Larsson, Bramble, Bendtner, and Cattermole are willing to play for him again suggests he is capable.

But despite that I don't think the fact that losing important players to strange moves being a recurring theme under Bruce can be ignored. May be it is just a case of him being a decent manager, but one who struggles to handle the challenges of managing top players so not quite good enough. Either way, I personally think it's become a little too difficult to offer him the benefit of any doubt.

Wouldn't argue with that either.
What I can't understand is how he seems to accept defeat so easily - complete opposite to when he was playing for Man U. Would have thought it was killing his personal pride to be doing so badly.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

So he got a fat contract and went on to play really well and not just sit back and take the money, surely to be lauded?

It's not just the new signings, Anton didn't want to leave as was really happy and Bramble came out this week in support of Bruce and he's another that's signed for him twice so he's obviously got something that some players like.

Quite simply, the ones who are saying there's a problem are the same ones leaving for more money, bit too much of a coincidence and easy for them to try and blame other things to try and cover up their greediness.

The same Anton who just a year before had a blazing row with Bruce? Steed didn't leave for more money either, and it was notable that Angeleri wasn't bemoaning Bruce not rating him as a player, but not showing him any respect as a person. And Gyan became unhappy here long before he asked for more money. I just think there is now too many little things like these to ignore.

Obviously Bruce is able to manage and motivate a certain type of character, but the likes of Bardsley and Bramble are not the kind of players who are going to take us much further forward. The likes of Bent and Gyan were, and Bruce couldn't keep them happy.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

The same Anton who just a year before had a blazing row with Bruce? Steed didn't leave for more money either, and it was notable that Angeleri wasn't bemoaning Bruce not rating him as a player, but not showing him any respect as a person. And Gyan became unhappy here long before he asked for more money. I just think there is now too many little things like these to ignore.

Obviously Bruce is able to manage and motivate a certain type of character, but the likes of Bardsley and Bramble are not the kind of players who are going to take us much further forward. The likes of Bent and Gyan were, and Bruce couldn't keep them happy.

Wasn't this because he wasn't playing though? Can't really blame Bruce for that.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

He got that contract before won PoTY award though.

Regarding players saying Bruce was a factor why they signed - are they not just a convenient sound bite for the club? Little bit of propaganda? To be honest, nearly all these 'new signing' interviews are always the same no matter what club they sign for. Always say nice things about the fans and the manager etc.

I'd say they should be read into as much as anything else a player/manager says. No more reason to buy into Steed saying the fun has gone or whatever, on leaving. Both are soundbites, a tiny percentage of whatever situation that is going on that a player has been asked about.

I respect you for commiting your thoughts eloquently to a blog but the content itself is too narrow to be a worthwhile, objective appraisal. Not enough of a review of all the sources and due to the nature of the sources themselves its basicaslly 90% guess work. Although that will be the case with any attempt to get to the root of this, as it's all about what goes on behind closed doors and inside people's heads.

The same Anton who just a year before had a blazing row with Bruce? Steed didn't leave for more money either, and it was notable that Angeleri wasn't bemoaning Bruce not rating him as a player, but not showing him any respect as a person. And Gyan became unhappy here long before he asked for more money. I just think there is now too many little things like these to ignore.

Obviously Bruce is able to manage and motivate a certain type of character, but the likes of Bardsley and Bramble are not the kind of players who are going to take us much further forward. The likes of Bent and Gyan were, and Bruce couldn't keep them happy.

When someone is leaving Sunderland for a UAE team with an avg attendance of about 400 but for a $200k pw wage that presents the question as to what, exactly, Bruce is to have done? As the only positive difference for Gyan is the wage. The status and level is several times more substantial at Sunderland. It's hard to take anything Gyan says seriosuly about lack of ambiiton having gone where he's had. The evidence is that that isn't something that concerns him at all.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

I'd say they should be read into as much as anything else a player/manager says. No more reason to buy into Steed saying the fun has gone or whatever, on leaving. Both are soundbites, a tiny percentage of whatever situation that is going on that a player has been asked about.

I respect you for commiting your thoughts eloquently to a blog but the content itself is too narrow to be a worthwhile, objective appraisal. Not enough of a review of all the sources and due to the nature of the sources themselves its basicaslly 90% guess work. Although that will be the case with any attempt to get to the root of this, as it's all about what goes on behind closed doors and inside people's heads.

I think that players leaving a club have nothing to really gain from saying these things, but players coming in have everything to gain from saying them That, to me, is a key difference.

But you are right that it is largely speculative, although it is speculating as to the reasons for behind something very much tangible. Top players ARE leaving us and not for progressive career moves like elsewhere and doing it with alarming regularity. It seems a little too easy to blame greedy players for that to me.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

Well-written piece as ever. Completely disagree about Bruce not being able to manage these players. However, I do think that our planning in terms of replacing these players leave a lot to be desired.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

When someone is leaving Sunderland for a UAE team with an avg attendance of about 400 but for a $200k pw wage that presents the question as to what, exactly, Bruce is to have done? As the only positive difference for Gyan is the wage. The status and level is several times more substantial at Sunderland. It's hard to take anything Gyan says seriosuly about lack of ambiiton having gone where he's had. The evidence is that that isn't something that concerns him at all.

It wasn't just the ambition Gyan was unhappy about though. It was also the spirit in the camp and it was long before the UAE team were interested.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

another excuse, will have him bleeting on about this for the next 12months instead of addressing his own mistakes.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

I think that players leaving a club have nothing to really gain from saying these things, but players coming in have everything to gain from saying them That, to me, is a key difference.

But you are right that it is largely speculative, although it is speculating as to the reasons for behind something very much tangible. Top players ARE leaving us and not for progressive career moves like elsewhere and doing it with alarming regularity. It seems a little too easy to blame greedy players for that to me.

Marcotti on The Times podcast was pretty scathing about us. Blaming the club more than blaming Gyan. The Guardian podcast suggested he was a dead man walking too.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

I think that players leaving a club have nothing to really gain from saying these things, but players coming in have everything to gain from saying them That, to me, is a key difference.

But you are right that it is largely speculative, although it is speculating as to the reasons for behind something very much tangible. Top players ARE leaving us and not for progressive career moves like elsewhere and doing it with alarming regularity. It seems a little too easy to blame greedy players for that to me.

Their pride? Their future propsects?

Steed for example. He's had to go because despite being one of our highest wage earners, he didn't notably contribute last season and can't justify occupying the wage space he does comapred to other players we have here now. He isn't going to come out and say that though is he? He has an agenda to spin just like any other player whose career is open to the media and public.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

Very fair points.

I don't question Bruce's ability to manage a football club, I just question whether or not he can do it at this level and manage top players. I still don't really consider the sound-bite style interviews to be especially credible, but as you point out the fact that the likes of Larsson, Bramble, Bendtner, and Cattermole are willing to play for him again suggests he is capable.

But despite that I don't think the fact that losing important players to strange moves being a recurring theme under Bruce can be ignored. May be it is just a case of him being a decent manager, but one who struggles to handle the challenges of managing top players so not quite good enough. Either way, I personally think it's become a little too difficult to offer him the benefit of any doubt.

An indication that they and Bruce reward loyalty with loyalty?
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

:lol:

Bit harsh like, the lads just having his opinion.

Just like writing for ALS in fact, or is that a less serious publication?

I think it's a well written, well constructed piece, it's just the content that's a heap of shite.

But that's just my opinion.

This.

Pure guesswork - which is the premise for the vast majority of fanzines and blogs.

Fairly well written like and obviously a lot of thought has went into the piece. Which is ironic given the speculative nature of the subject matter.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

Marcotti on The Times podcast was pretty scathing about us. Blaming the club more than blaming Gyan. The Guardian podcast suggested he was a dead man walking too.

We have the Ghanaian journalist Gary Al Smith on the RR podcast this week who knows Gyan personally. Wasn't brilliant hearing what he had to say about it all. Very worrying indeed. Our's isn't out until Friday, but he was also on the Elastico podcast talking about the same thing for anyone wanting to hear it.

http://catkins89.podomatic.com/
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

I think that players leaving a club have nothing to really gain from saying these things, but players coming in have everything to gain from saying them That, to me, is a key difference.

But you are right that it is largely speculative, although it is speculating as to the reasons for behind something very much tangible. Top players ARE leaving us and not for progressive career moves like elsewhere and doing it with alarming regularity. It seems a little too easy to blame greedy players for that to me.

They're just soundbites mate.

Nowt more, nowt less.
 
Re: [roker report] Captain's Blog: At Bruce's Behest - Drawing My Own Gyan Conclusion

It wasn't just the ambition Gyan was unhappy about though. It was also the spirit in the camp and it was long before the UAE team were interested.

I'd be interested to see how a player could convice themselves how a team whose last 12 results have ended 0-0, who play in front of a crowd about that of a conference side, and whose best players are there essentially in spite of the football, would experience a greater sense of team spirit?

Just becuase he said it dosen't mean there's anything in it.

I'm no fan of Bruce but this notion that a manager somehow should appease a player earning more in a week than I do a year and if said player throws a stropt it's the manager in trouble, not the player, is insane.
 
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