nyron4england
Striker
exactly. just gotta get on with it.
Rental/tenancy deposit question
- Thread starter Medulla
- Start date
Medulla
Striker
I was present at checkout and the clerk raised a couple of issues which I was happy to address - for instance, a bulb was out which I must have missed, so I went out there and then and bought one and he also mentioned that a couple of bathmats were missing (which I'd wrongly assumed were mine) so I went to the new place and brought those back. Hilariously, there were two AAA batteries missing from a remote and I even went out and replaced them for him! But aside from that, no comments and I even asked "all ok?" and he didn't indicate otherwise.
Did you take photos at checkout yourself?
I'd break down everything they've stated upto this point and even if you are not at fault, give a cost of the replacement, but state whether you feel responsible or not and why. Also make use of 'general wear and tear' for anything you can.
What did they say at checkout?
I didn't take photos myself no, but they provided a checkout report with loads of photos and I don't really dispute their content.
Essentially at the heart of the dispute is the fact that they are claiming things that did not happen during the course of the tenancy - so they're saying there are marks on the wall or chipped paintwork and stuff like that, but these were pre-existing things. A key issue is that the photographs in the original inventory are not from the time of moving in, and I have an email from one of the letting agents from a couple of weeks after moving in that states that. So using these photos as evidence as to the pre-existing state is total bullshit.
Other stuff is just batshit things that completely ignore fair wear and tear, like there were a few (not new) tea towels when I moved in and a few (not new) tea towels were left at checkout, which they are claiming are 'unusable' and I should replace. Aye, fuck off pet.
TBH mate, there were a couple of missing things (a wine glass and a wooden tea tray) and I'm not disputing those. The rest of it is 'damage' - lots of it is on the inventory and other stuff is just trivial shite. There's a few bits that I'm not really disputing in principle but when I've attempted to find out how they've worked out the costs or just requested more info they've stonewalled me, so they can go fuck themselves if they think I'm just rolling over and accepting them without just cause.
It's a strange process because I'm now asked to submit 'evidence' but in certain cases the reason I'm disputing deductions is because they haven't given me the right evidence for me to accept their points. I guess all I can do is draw up previous correspondence as evidence to explain my stance!
pavarotti1980
Striker
Just indicate you have asked for evidence of things being incorrect form them and they have not provided it (and most likely never will) and the more points like this will work in your favour. If they wont tell you how can you accept or dispute them. Also you need a full break down of costs from them so you can dispute the costs if applicable
Medulla
Striker
Yeah, it's odd though because what if they now supply this to the arbitrator and I've never seen the details?
It has the potential to look like a reasonable demand to the arbitrator but, since I've not been given the full info, not to me. The system doesn't seem especially transparent.
Dave Herbal
Striker
I’ve moved a bear into your spare room.
pavarotti1980
Striker
Then you say its the first time they have provided this and you are not able to respond with it being dropped on the lap of arbitrator without giving it to you.
kossoff
Striker
I think you'll be fine
Medulla
Striker
Problem is, that I don't know (or, I think, get to know) what they're sending to the arbitrator (and vice versa). My understanding was that they send in their evidence and I get to respond, but actually we both have to submit our 'evidence' at the same time. So I can really only structure it to address the things they've already raised and the 'evidence' they've already given to me, such as it is.
As I said, bit of a strange and opaque system to my mind but there we are!
Mate, I'm planning on making my case watertight. They've fucked me off now and the money has become very secondary.
What I could do with is an insight into what the arbitrators want - I'm thinking some sort of commentary on each point which references the evidence supplied (e.g. 'blah blah blah, see email from 18th March (Appendix G))' with a bit of upfront background to give some sort of chronology and to raise some general points like the fact that the inventory photos should be deemed irrelevant.
I guess I want to be comprehensive whilst also being concise enough that the key points come out!
Last edited:
kossoff
Striker
Do it in concise bullet points and then a summary at the end with any missing bits. Also try your luck at a counter claim for the amount of time they have held the money and for wasting your time.
Pepe
Striker
Aye, had it a couple of years ago, the landlords claimed against me for more than my depositUPDATE: they very kindly budged and moved from £658 to £600, while I decided to offer to meet them in the middle at £16.10.
So it now has to go to an independent arbitrator, who has requested evidence from both of us.
Anyone have experience of this process? What kind of thing should I be looking to send in to them? At the moment I'm thinking of a short document which gives a bit of background/context and then addresses each claim point by point with reference to evidence (emails, invoices, inventory, checkout report) that I'll supply in an appendix. Would that be sensible?
Would be grateful for any guidance on this as I want to make it as easy as possible to make my case to the arbitrator without them wading through reams of paper.
Cheers!
I was absolutely foaming, it is definitely a stressful business. Luckily I had taken photos on the day I moved in and sent an email to the agent pointing out all of these faults which they chose to ignore.
The case had to go via the arbitrator although I had to pay £10 for a ‘missing’ piece of wood from the bed which was apparently in the cupboard. It wasn’t but whatever. Their decision is binding so I had to concede. Better than the £1600 the robbing bitch had asked from me.
Medulla
Striker
Now in arbitration. Just submitted a 15 page rebuttal of everything they've claimed for (I'd rather it'd have been shorter but they were claiming for a lot) with 15 separate evidence docs to go alongside it as appendices.
The whole thing comes to about 180 pages -mainly the inventory, checkout report and tenancy agreement but still.
Wankers.
The whole thing comes to about 180 pages -mainly the inventory, checkout report and tenancy agreement but still.
Wankers.
Pepe
Striker
Well done, has to be done. Absolute whoppers for doing this to you and it is extremely stressful to the point where the money becomes secondary and the questioning of your integrity is the worst.
My guess is almost full redress for you with a token payment for the tea towels or something.
Medulla
Striker
It's absolutely about more than the money now like. It's verging on a personal crusade.
ProfessionalMackem
Striker
That's why I only rent unfurnished apart from 3C's. Cooker carpet curtains. Right chew on with furnishings.
Ever tried Cooper lets on sea road mate?
Seem canny, was going to use them. Then found a tenant mesel
Last edited:
Jonny Ringo
Central Defender
Questions:
1) When did your tenancy commence?
2) What was the term?
3) Was the agreement ever renewed?
4) When did you pay the deposit?
5) On what date was it protected?
6) Were you served with the prescribed information?
7) If so, when?
8) Can I see a copy?
I’m a landlord and tenant solicitor btw, not just nosy. Just got a tenant client £5k in damages against a landlord for breaching deposit laws (you can have multiple breaches if tenancies are renewed so huge claims can be created even on a £500 deposit). Even if you don’t actually want to pursue a claim the threat of it often makes a landlord back off and pay up.
1) When did your tenancy commence?
2) What was the term?
3) Was the agreement ever renewed?
4) When did you pay the deposit?
5) On what date was it protected?
6) Were you served with the prescribed information?
7) If so, when?
8) Can I see a copy?
I’m a landlord and tenant solicitor btw, not just nosy. Just got a tenant client £5k in damages against a landlord for breaching deposit laws (you can have multiple breaches if tenancies are renewed so huge claims can be created even on a £500 deposit). Even if you don’t actually want to pursue a claim the threat of it often makes a landlord back off and pay up.
Medulla
Striker
Sorry mate, must have missed this. Tenancy commenced in May 2016 on a 3 year contract with a break clause coming into force after 1 year so no renewal. Deposit was paid at the start and was protected at the same time - they sent a doc from the DPS confirming it about a week after we moved in - it was a scanned B&W printed summary page of the deposit details from the DPS site (you can see it if you like, but I think it's all kosher).
Expecting a decision from the arbitrator any day now - I'm checking my email every 15 minutes nearly. If I win you'll hear the roar up in County Durham.
Jonny Ringo
Central Defender
Often landlords just send the deposit certificate when what they are legally required to send is far more extensive. It is strict liability, meaning even the smallest error gives rise to a claim for the return of the deposit plus compo of up to three times its value. The claim can be replicated if there are tenancy renewals, hence my question. In my experience landlords almost always fuck the prescribed information up in one way or another. If you get nowhere with the arbitrator give me a shout and I’ll take a look at it for you.Sorry mate, must have missed this. Tenancy commenced in May 2016 on a 3 year contract with a break clause coming into force after 1 year so no renewal. Deposit was paid at the start and was protected at the same time - they sent a doc from the DPS confirming it about a week after we moved in - it was a scanned B&W printed summary page of the deposit details from the DPS site (you can see it if you like, but I think it's all kosher).
Expecting a decision from the arbitrator any day now - I'm checking my email every 15 minutes nearly. If I win you'll hear the roar up in County Durham.
Medulla
Striker
It was nothing extensive mate - a one page scan with summary info from the deposit logged on the DPS website (names, dates, flat address, amount, deposit id) nowt more.
That's very decent of you, will certainly drop you a line if needs be - hard to pass up any opportunity to make life difficult for these bastards, they've f***ing lit a fire in me from the claim and the manner they've 'dealt' with me.
Medulla
Striker
Judgement in - got 500 of the 650 back. Still think the fuckers were very well looked after getting £150 of my money - probably about £100 too much - but I'm taking this as a well earned victory.
@Jonny Ringo Happy to stiff the horrible bastards for more like
@Jonny Ringo Happy to stiff the horrible bastards for more like
Joe Public
Striker
As a landlord, I find it hard to believe other landlords pull this shit, it’s a disgrace to treat someone that has been a customer of yours that way just to scrape a few extra quid off them.
My tenant has been there years, he’s in the middle of a signed tenancy but wants to move up to Scotland for work, he has been spot on, I haven’t even checked the flat but have arranged for his full deposit return, told him not to bother cleaning it as I’ll get it professionally done once he’s gone, and good luck to him. He’s even sorted my next tenant out on recommendation, top lad.
Landlords should realise the value of keeping a good tenant and treating them right even when they do decide to move on. If they did, they wouldn’t have to waste so much time and money getting the place occupied.
My tenant has been there years, he’s in the middle of a signed tenancy but wants to move up to Scotland for work, he has been spot on, I haven’t even checked the flat but have arranged for his full deposit return, told him not to bother cleaning it as I’ll get it professionally done once he’s gone, and good luck to him. He’s even sorted my next tenant out on recommendation, top lad.
Landlords should realise the value of keeping a good tenant and treating them right even when they do decide to move on. If they did, they wouldn’t have to waste so much time and money getting the place occupied.
