Red card?



 
It's a red; undue force; endangering an opponent etc..
That shot shows the ball has travelled about two feet on from where Dennis headed it, so about one-twentieth of a second after contact. The goalie's arm is bent, and perhaps that is a recoil effect because he has already made contact. Given that Cirkin's head is still vertical, it looks more like Long is about to follow through and straighten his arm, so his attempt to get the ball is very, very late: so late that it is arguably deliberate. It even could be seen as Actual Bodily Harm, but it would be hard to make that charge stick for a single punch. That team didn't seem to have any qualms about smashing people up all over the rest of the pitch anyway (or diving about feigning injury). Maybe what was deliberate was the manager's tactics?
The EFL should take some action on the incident, and the FA should be looking at the rules.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64435571

I hope you're feeling better today Dennis :neutral:.

There should be enough in the existing rules for it to be deemed as serious foul play (violent conduct is when not challenging for the ball):-

Serious foul play​

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.


Pretty clear to me the safety of Cirkin was endangered due to excessive force - he was knocked out ffs.

That said, to avoid any doubt, perhaps they should have an explicit line in for goalkeepers as the example under the bold bit typically usually applies to outfield players.

Alot of situations involving keepers are worse as more often than not both players are running towards each other (higher force on impact) and impact tends to be higher & more dangerous.

They could include something along the lines of "a goalkeeper who intends to punch a ball but misses the ball and instead punches an opposing player above shoulder height".
 
Perhaps someone can clarify the difference between an outfield player getting a red card for mistiming a tackle and injuring someone, compared to a goalkeeper mistiming a punch and hitting someone in the head.

Intent has got nothing to do with it as far as I'm aware.
 
Always baffled me why a dangerous foul by a keeper outside the box results in a straight red whereas a full force punch in the face by a keeper in the box goes totally unpunished.
 
What amazes me is why the goalkeeper is swinging his arm upwards just like an uppercut thrown in a boxing match! Looks very dodgy to me like.
 
If Patto had one the same you lot wouldn’t Nat an eye lid. Keepers get protection and that’s just football. Get over it.

He wasn't in need of protection. He recklessly endangered an opponent by going fist first into a melee at chest height. Look up the definition of serious foul play.
 
He wasn't in need of protection. He recklessly endangered an opponent by going fist first into a melee at chest height. Look up the definition of serious foul play.

I get what you’re saying but a keeper punches balls clear at all heights every single game. It’s not as black and white as reading a rule book. If Cirkin hadn’t been brave the keeper punches it clear and it’s a good clearance. It’s unfortunate but shit happens. We scored. Cirkin is fine, we move on.
 
I get what you’re saying but a keeper punches balls clear at all heights every single game. It’s not as black and white as reading a rule book. If Cirkin hadn’t been brave the keeper punches it clear and it’s a good clearance. It’s unfortunate but shit happens. We scored. Cirkin is fine, we move on.

Players make tackles every game.

When the tackle endangers an opponent then it is a red card juat like punching somebody in the face should be.
 
Players make tackles every game.

When the tackle endangers an opponent then it is a red card juat like punching somebody in the face should be.

We can go around and round in circles forever, unfortunately keepers always seem to the get the benefit of doubt. It’s done man, nothing is going to come of it. Move on.
 
Not for me. He’s trying to punch the ball away, as he’s entitled to do, and Cirkin gets there ahead of him. It’s in the same category as a clash of heads for me.
Players make tackles every game.

When the tackle endangers an opponent then it is a red card juat like punching somebody in the face should be.
Should a clash of heads be a red card? That can be really really dangerous.
 
Not for me. He’s trying to punch the ball away, as he’s entitled to do, and Cirkin gets there ahead of him. It’s in the same category as a clash of heads for me.

Should a clash of heads be a red card? That can be really really dangerous.

A clash of heads can be a red card if one of the players goes in late and uses excessive force.
We can go around and round in circles forever, unfortunately keepers always seem to the get the benefit of doubt. It’s done man, nothing is going to come of it. Move on.

Oh well then that's this conversation done with then.
What's the point of having a message board if you can't discuss decisions afterwards?
 
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I’m yet to see it. Cahill nearly killed Ryan Mason.

Just because you hardly ever see it doesn't mean it can't happen.

If you use excessive force and endanger your opponent then a referee can send you off. It doesn't matter if it's for a clash of heads, a keepers punch or a tackle.
 
Just because you hardly ever see it doesn't mean it can't happen.

If you use excessive force and endanger your opponent then a referee can send you off. It doesn't matter if it's for a clash of heads, a keepers punch or a tackle.
For me you could take that to extremes. Aka the Son Red Card at Everton or the Struijk one at Leeds, refereeing entirely on outcome. Accidents will always happen. For me that was just a nasty clash, definitely a penalty but not a Red Card.
 

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