Red card?


You could say exactly the same thing about a player going to head a ball and knocking someone out. It’s not a requirement to head the ball in as much as punching isn’t for a goalkeeper. Cahill ended Mason’s career. Luiz put Jiminez into intensive care. Both of them missed the ball, I don’t remember anyone calling for either of them to be red carded.

There’s a clear law against a high boot. Instead of using your boot you can use your head or upper body. A keeper can use his hands at any height. If Mane had gone with his head, and had the same result, he would not have been sent off. This Red Card was also massively debated and condemned at the time.

Theres a clear law about playing in a manner that endangers an opponent
 
Can he honestly say he was going for the ball. Cross coming in and his feet still on the ground.
 
High foot is only a foul if it’s endangering an opponent. If they do it when no one is in the way, it’s not a foul. Raising your boot isn’t a foul. It’s kicking someone in the head, potentially, that’s a foul.

It should be the same for punches. If you dive into a player fist first and touch the player first (or miss the ball completely as in this case) it should be a foul.
 
Ok then: if the keeper can get to the ball first then they should catch it or punch it, and if they can't get to it first then they have options but none of them are punching people in the face.

It's easy to pretend there are only two options isn't it. Means you don't really need to think that hard.
What are the options then? In 0.1 seconds? He’s gone to punch it, Cirkin nips ahead of him. It’s a collision in a contact sport.
No, the keeper was right to try and punch it, no-one is disputing that, but he got his timing wrong and punched a player in the face.

An outfield player is slower in a tackle and ends up dangerously smashing into an opponent, its a red. Its technically the same thing, and there's not one of us on here that wouldn't be calling for a red in the latter event.
Nah that’s utter rubbish. If you get your timing wrong and nut someone in the head, blood pouring all over, I’ve never seen a red card for that. Ever. Same thing for me this one.
Theres a clear law about playing in a manner that endangers an opponent
A clash of heads endangers opponents? Tripping someone over can endanger an opponent. Red cards all round?
Well a few things really, we scored from it so it could be argued it should have been a penalty. We know he scored so he prevented a goal scoring opportunity.

If truth be told after having the debate I don't think this should be a grey area, the rules should be clearer and imo a reckless mis-timed punch should be a red card.
What about mistimed clash of heads? Player KOd with claret all over?
 
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His stance was akin to a boxer throwing a punch he had no chance of connecting with the ball!
Think this is a ridiculous take tbh. In what world does a professional GK in the Championship decide that aye I’ll just punch someone in the head in the middle of a free kick being delivered 1-0 up. Clearly never played football.
 
Think this is a ridiculous take tbh. In what world does a professional GK in the Championship decide that aye I’ll just punch someone in the head in the middle of a free kick being delivered 1-0 up. Clearly never played football.
Have you looked at the picture? There’s no way he had any chance of making contact with the ball. It was totally reckless.
 
Have you looked at the picture? There’s no way he had any chance of making contact with the ball. It was totally reckless.
Don’t need to look at a still image mate. I was there live. I’ve watched a video from three more angles. He’s lined up the ball and as he’s about to punch the ball clear, Cirkin comes from a blind area and gets there marginally before him. If we’re going to use still images, we’ll have 10 red cards a game. No players appealed, Tony Mowbray didn’t mention it. Anyone that’s played football knows these things happen. What else is the keeper supposed to do? Stand there and just let him head it?
 
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Don’t need to look at a still image mate. I was there live. I’ve watched a video from three more angles. He’s lined up the ball and as he’s about to punch the ball clear, Cirkin comes from a blind area and gets there marginally before him. If we’re going to use still images, we’ll have 10 red cards a game. No players appealed, Tony Mowbray didn’t mention it. Anyone that’s played football knows these things happen. What else is the keeper supposed to do? Stand there and just let him head it?

He has mistimed his clearance.

I don't think he he has gone in to hurt Cirkin but when you go into a crowded area in the manner he has it is dangerous. If he gets the ball and simply collides (body to body) with Cirkin then fair enough but he has knocked him out with his fists and got nowhere near the ball.

It is excessive force and has clearly endangered an opponent.
 
He has mistimed his clearance.

I don't think he he has gone in to hurt Cirkin but when you go into a crowded area in the manner he has it is dangerous. If he gets the ball and simply collides (body to body) with Cirkin then fair enough but he has knocked him out with his fists and got nowhere near the ball.

It is excessive force and has clearly endangered an opponent.
So you’re refereeing purely on outcome. It’s a foul because he doesn’t get there. But you’ve said if he gets the ball then it’s fine. That doesn’t stack up. If you’re convinced it’s reckless and dangerous the ball is irrelevant.
 
So you’re refereeing purely on outcome. It’s a foul because he doesn’t get there. But you’ve said if he gets the ball then it’s fine. That doesn’t stack up. If you’re convinced it’s reckless and dangerous the ball is irrelevant.

I've said if he gets the ball and collides (body to body) with the opponent then I don't think it would be a red card as they would have simply ran into each other.

In this case he hasn't simply just collided with Cirkin he has hit him with a punch and got nowhere near the ball.
 
Don’t need to look at a still image mate. I was there live. I’ve watched a video from three more angles. He’s lined up the ball and as he’s about to punch the ball clear, Cirkin comes from a blind area and gets there marginally before him. If we’re going to use still images, we’ll have 10 red cards a game. No players appealed, Tony Mowbray didn’t mention it. Anyone that’s played football knows these things happen. What else is the keeper supposed to do? Stand there and just let him head it?

Which one were you in that picture then?
 
So you’re refereeing purely on outcome. It’s a foul because he doesn’t get there. But you’ve said if he gets the ball then it’s fine. That doesn’t stack up. If you’re convinced it’s reckless and dangerous the ball is irrelevant.

He's run in from 8 yards away, and gone fists forward horizontally into a ruck of players at chest/head height. It's nothing like a goalkeeper's natural punch, which is usually over player's heads. He's totally cocked it up. He's endangering his teammates as much as Cirkin. Under the laws if a foul is committed (which you admit it is) which is reckless, uses excessive force, and endangers an opponent, it should be penalised as serious foul play, resulting ina red card. In what respect is the keeper's challenge not all of those things?
 
I think it was a red, having watched replays. It's late and dangerous, so, by the letter of the law is a red. If an outfield player does that and kicks an opponent in the leg, they're going to get sent off. At the time, I didn't see a thing and had no idea what had gone on. I'm not sure that either of the ref or lino had a clue as to what had happened, along with at least 99% of the people in the ground, so I can see why it wasn't given.
 
Many, many years ago I went to clear a ball played into our box. I had my eye firmly on that ball with full intent of launching it into the opponents half. I swung my boot at the ball and in a fraction of a second the oppo centre forwards head was in place of the ball. Nasty outcome - should I have been carded?
Yes
 
He's run in from 8 yards away, and gone fists forward horizontally into a ruck of players at chest/head height. It's nothing like a goalkeeper's natural punch, which is usually over player's heads. He's totally cocked it up. He's endangering his teammates as much as Cirkin. Under the laws if a foul is committed (which you admit it is) which is reckless, uses excessive force, and endangers an opponent, it should be penalised as serious foul play, resulting ina red card. In what respect is the keeper's challenge not all of those things?

That's how I see it in retrospect - goalkeepers normally punch overarm, not an uppercut.

Still doubt it will get a second look by the FA, though.
 
I think its a red, mainly cos hes uncontrolled. I think he didnt really have much idea or confidence he just knew he needed to cause disruption in the general area of the ball and threw his fists into it. Which is worse than missing a ball you're focussed on in error as it shows no regard for anyones safety , could easy have been his own player on a different day
 

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