Rashford Dropped


If we're going to look at England "traditionally" bowing out at the quarter final stage at any tournament, we may as well acquaint ourselves with what has actually happened since we last won something.

There were no quarter finals in the World Cup between 1974 and 1982 (and England failed to qualify for two of them anyway).

Quarter finals were also only introduced to the European Championships from 1996 onwards. There were only 4 nations at the Finals until 1976, then 8 until 1992.

1970 - Q/F
1986 - Q/F
1990 - S/F
1994 - failed to qualify
1996 - S/F
1998 - 2nd round
2000 - group phase
2002 - Q/F
2004 - Q/F
2006 - Q/F
2008 - failed to qualify
2010 - 2nd round
2012 - Q/F
2014 - group phase
2016 - 2nd round
2018 - S/F
2020 - Finalists

If anything, "tradition" shows we are just as likely to be knocked out before the last eight, whether it be at the Finals or the qualifiers. Going further than that has been an occasional treat, at least up until recently. Only the Sven Goran Eriksson era had a regular QF departure.
 
What’s he not a winner based on? As a country we haven’t won anything for 56 years. I don’t think he is an amazing manager or anything but he has done a very very good job with England, there is no denying that
I think one of our problems is that other teams like Germany or France or Brazil don't look at getting to a SF as success. They look it as failure. We won in 66 and in the intervening time France, Germany, Italy and Spain have won numerous tournaments. We will never have a better chance than we did in the Euros playing at home against Italy who were decent but their failure to qualify for this WC shows their limitations. Southgate isn't a winner based on not having won anything in his career as a manager whether that's at Boro, who he had relegation with, the under 21s or now England. Let's pray that he finally changes that in this WC.
 
I think one of our problems is that other teams like Germany or France or Brazil don't look at getting to a SF as success. They look it as failure. We won in 66 and in the intervening time France, Germany, Italy and Spain have won numerous tournaments. We will never have a better chance than we did in the Euros playing at home against Italy who were decent but their failure to qualify for this WC shows their limitations. Southgate isn't a winner based on not having won anything in his career as a manager whether that's at Boro, who he had relegation with, the under 21s or now England. Let's pray that he finally changes that in this WC.

They have more of a right to look at it as failure due to their tournament records. Perhaps people forget this and get above our station slightly. Calling a manager a loser/not a winner (as an excuse to constantly dig him out) when we've won nowt previously is odd.
 
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They have more of a right to look at it as failure due to their tournament records. Perhaps people forget this and get above our station slightly. Calling a manager a loser/not a winner (as an excuse to constantly dig him out) when we've won nowt previously is odd.
Its not odd at all. Most international manager's will have won something or achieved a promotion or something prior to get the top job. Southgate is probably unusual in that he hasn't won anything as a manager. He's done a good job and certainly deserved the crack at this world cup but its not illiogical to have doubts about his inability to get a team over the line. Remember all those years ago when Graham Taylor was appointed rather than Cloughie. If we had appointed Cloughie he may well have got England to win something. Its all guess work anyway because Cloughie may have been a flop.

For me, what Southgate has done is got a really good team spirit. He is respected by the players and they have responded - that probably didn't happen under Capello or Eriksson. However, the doubts are whether he can inspire in the heat of battle, whether he has tactical nous in the middle of the game when needed. His failure to change the team before Italy scored in the Euro finals is certainly something worthy of criticism. For a country of our importance to have only won one tournament is a disgrace. We all want the same thing but frustration at not winning the last one is understandable.
 
I think one of our problems is that other teams like Germany or France or Brazil don't look at getting to a SF as success. They look it as failure. We won in 66 and in the intervening time France, Germany, Italy and Spain have won numerous tournaments. We will never have a better chance than we did in the Euros playing at home against Italy who were decent but their failure to qualify for this WC shows their limitations. Southgate isn't a winner based on not having won anything in his career as a manager whether that's at Boro, who he had relegation with, the under 21s or now England. Let's pray that he finally changes that in this WC.
That’s because they often go deep and win things. Our par is the quarters, worse than that a failure, better than that a success. Stop downplaying Italy, they came into it unbeaten in about 30 games and won the whole thing man. If they are “decent” what does it say about everyone else. I can’t be arsed to check but loads of international managers have done well without winning stuff or at least without being a massive success anyway. Can’t particularly remember low doing much before he won it with Germany as an example
 
That’s because they often go deep and win things. Our par is the quarters, worse than that a failure, better than that a success. Stop downplaying Italy, they came into it unbeaten in about 30 games and won the whole thing man. If they are “decent” what does it say about everyone else. I can’t be arsed to check but loads of international managers have done well without winning stuff or at least without being a massive success anyway. Can’t particularly remember low doing much before he won it with Germany as an example
Italy were beatable. They had two centre backs who were over 35 and they have subsequently failed to qualify for the WC. Unlike, say France now, they were not world beaters. I am not down playing them as much as saying we will never get a better chance to win a major final than that. And I am not the only one to feel that Southgate's indecision prior to them scoring cost us. There were millions screaming at their telly's for him to change it and get some legs on. Equally, I am not saying you have to have won something to make a good international manager. Most managers will have won something but not all - Southgate actually had a poor record as a manager both at Boro and with the U21's before taking the top job where he has performed much better than we could have expected given his record.
 
Italy were beatable. They had two centre backs who were over 35 and they have subsequently failed to qualify for the WC. Unlike, say France now, they were not world beaters. I am not down playing them as much as saying we will never get a better chance to win a major final than that. And I am not the only one to feel that Southgate's indecision prior to them scoring cost us. There were millions screaming at their telly's for him to change it and get some legs on. Equally, I am not saying you have to have won something to make a good international manager. Most managers will have won something but not all - Southgate actually had a poor record as a manager both at Boro and with the U21's before taking the top job where he has performed much better than we could have expected given his record.
They had 2 absolutely brilliant centre half’s man. If they were so beatable why didn’t someone just beat them. Italy came into euro 2020 in absolutely miles better form then what France have came into this World Cup with by the way
 
They had 2 absolutely brilliant centre half’s man. If they were so beatable why didn’t someone just beat them. Italy came into euro 2020 in absolutely miles better form then what France have came into this World Cup with by the way
If you had looked at the Italian press before hand they were scared that our pace would tear apart their aging centre backs but we didn't. I am not saying that Italy weren't a good side. I am saying we will never get a better chance to win a major tournament than that and we didn't take it. What France have is Mbappe and he makes the difference. Italy didn't have anyone like that. They did have, however, a very astute manager in Mancini and a great CM in Verrati who could control a game and did so.
 
If as you say, the odds of winning three matches are very small, why put ourselves through unnecessary discomfort?

I would say we go for it and keep a positive mindset.
We should go for it of course. Doesn’t mean winning 3 50/50 games is any easier. We have a really tough run to the final, and we should be giving it our all as I know the lads will be. I’m fully behind Gareth and the boys
 
We should go for it of course. Doesn’t mean winning 3 50/50 games is any easier. We have a really tough run to the final, and we should be giving it our all as I know the lads will be. I’m fully behind Gareth and the boys

If we lose any of them its because of Southy. Any win is despite him.
 

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