peil
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Minoritie Ethnique - from the French innitIf it stands for 'black and ethnic minorities' why the fuck is the abbreviation BME?![]()
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Minoritie Ethnique - from the French innitIf it stands for 'black and ethnic minorities' why the fuck is the abbreviation BME?![]()
So how do they prove they are good enough if they don't get the job?.
There's clearly something not right here. Loads and loads of black and coloured players and hardly any black or coloured managers or coaches. It seems very apparent that they are getting overlooked and not given a chance. Why? This is not PC gone mad just an attempt to try and answer this conundrum. Every single time race is raised people on here go 'PC gone mad'. Why? Do you feel threatened?
The Rooney rule is a good one - it demands no quotas just ensure ethnic minorities get a chance to be considered - whats wrong with that?
Even if we are being selfish we are not choosing from a big enough pool by not considering black candidates. Maybe if the game did get more black/ethnic minority coaches we might end up with a few decent English managers - unlike now.
.......... pc gone mad again. The day that one black, coffee-coloured or whatever hue coach does well and produces the goods, he'll be snapped up by the big clubs on merit - and on merit alone - but promoting anyone just on account of the shade of their skin colour is wrong. Treating anyone differently, positively or negatively - solely on account of their skin colour shade is racist. In this respect we all ought to be colour-blind.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/10/players-call-one-five-coaches-ethnic-minorities-2020
Yes, it's quite a standard reply - when we hear about quotas for women MP's, ethnic minorities, etc - sorry for being unoriginal.
Threatened??? By what exactly?
I've noticed a couple of question marks raised over my use of the term coloured - I've been out of England for 30 odd years now - has this term come into disuse for some reason? What adjectives would be better?
They could start by not complaining that ex pro's aren't being handed top level manager jobs - and go down the leagues to get whatever job they can.
But they're used to £50,000 a week, and simply won't work for £1,000 a week as a coach to get the experience.
I'm with you. It changes every other week. I see some people are 'offended' by it though.Yes, it's quite a standard reply - when we hear about quotas for women MP's, ethnic minorities, etc - sorry for being unoriginal.
Threatened??? By what exactly?
I've noticed a couple of question marks raised over my use of the term coloured - I've been out of England for 30 odd years now - has this term come into disuse for some reason? What adjectives would be better?
Where statistics appear to be king, I've yet to see the ethnic breakdown of those who hold the correct badges to be able to hold the role in the Prem or elsewhere. I'd be disappointed if our club didn't interview a potential manager due to their ethnicity - but don't believe we are such a club. Those who have played in England and then managed, off top of my head, with a non-white ethnicity would be Powell, Barnes, Ince, Ruud and Hughton - Barnes was terrible, Hughton got a bad press at Sid James but appears to be a good manager, Ruud was bound to fail when him and Shearer fell out, Ince has failed at every role and Powell has been OK at the lower leagues. But how many others are qualified? I like the idea of from £50k to £1k may put people off, but equally, if they have that much money and they want to achieve in managemenbt, it should be the time learning not the money paid.
So if you had a black and white person applying for the same job with the same interview score, the black candidate would get it just because of his skin tone ?
The term Black (which apparently includes Asian and other dark skin races) has come into the Mainstream speech over the all 10 years, I've got an Asian mate who hates being called black..does that make him a racist
Good .What colour are 'they'?
Surely it's worthwhile looking at something like the Rooney rule?
There is institutionalised racism, sexism, homophobia in football.
Yes, it's quite a standard reply - when we hear about quotas for women MP's, ethnic minorities, etc - sorry for being unoriginal.
Threatened??? By what exactly?
I've noticed a couple of question marks raised over my use of the term coloured - I've been out of England for 30 odd years now - has this term come into disuse for some reason? What adjectives would be better?
Good?Good .
Agreed with this. No harm whatsoever in a Rooney rule equivalent over here.'I think if nothing is done this will persist'
I imagine that, even at this point in the debate, an equally qualified black candidate would get a job over a white one - it would generate such good publicity for the club apart from anything else.
To be honest there are several statistical trends here that could explain what is going on without resorting to simplistic explanations of bigotry:
First, the proportion of black footballers in England has increased significantly over the past 15-20 years, and there being a natural time-lag between a playing and managing career, it would be daft to expect the number of black managers to approach the current % of black players.
Secondly, at the same time, the money made by the players has increased, and so have the media opportunities for ex-players - so the number of ex-players generally who are interested in pursuing management as a secondary career may be less than it was for the previous generations of players. So an increase in the % of black players wouldn't necessarily impact in more black managers to the same extent.
Thirdly - strict qualification requirements have been imposed which may again put off ex-players from going though the licensing process. There may also be a case for believing that throughout the UK young black males generally do not thrive in classroom-type learning environments, so they may be more put off either from personal experiences or cultural feedback from pursuing these licences.
Also the culture of the UK might be structurally racist in not seeing/encouraging black males in/into teaching roles (When I say' primary school teacher' does a black guy pop into your head? How about 'rap musician'?) and maybe such a view even extends to the black culture itself - reinforcing the effect. That doesn't mean that directors of football clubs necessarily share that view. One issue that might be exacerbating the problem is the catch 22 that boards tend to demand experience - so it will take while for a breakthrough of BME coaches at lower league levels to move up the tiers to where they are more visible..
Fourthly it looks like the current numbers of black UEFA licence applicants is less than 5.1% (as that is the figure for all BME people). Presumably it was lower than that in the past, so factoring in the timelag 3.1% in jobs seems to be very poor evidence of any direct or obvious racism.
Summary - the problem isn't that clubs are being intentionally racist - they would probably welcome more properly qualified BME candidates - but 95% of those coaches taking the higher level qualifications are not BME.
The problem (if indeed there is one) is that not enough BME candidates are taking the UEFA courses required to get the decent jobs. It seems very harsh to blame Ellis Short and Maggie Burne for that...
Sorry, but I think there is massive harm. 20-25% of people interviewed must belong to a group who make up 5% of the coaching population?Agreed with this. No harm whatsoever in a Rooney rule equivalent over here.
What if 20-25% of players were from ethnic minorities? Managers are normally ex-players. Therefore that is the appropriate population to use.Sorry, but I think there is massive harm. 20-25% of people interviewed must belong to a group who make up 5% of the coaching population?
What if 20-25% of players were from ethnic minorities? Managers are normally ex-players. Therefore that is the appropriate population to use.