Quotas for coloured coaches...


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.......... pc gone mad again. The day that one black, coffee-coloured or whatever hue coach does well and produces the goods, he'll be snapped up by the big clubs on merit - and on merit alone - but promoting anyone just on account of the shade of their skin colour is wrong. Treating anyone differently, positively or negatively - solely on account of their skin colour shade is racist. In this respect we all ought to be colour-blind.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/10/players-call-one-five-coaches-ethnic-minorities-2020
Biologically black skin and white skin are the same except for different amounts of melanin
 
Do black ex-players not have social connections like? Could a black ex-player not have been in the restaurant with Short that night? I don't doubt that managers are often picked on anything but merit and that it is often a case of who you know with the same, failed, faces turning up job after job but I don't seriously believe that there are that many well-connected people to prevent a black person even getting a good coaching position, or that all the people who are well-connected and lucky enough to get on the merrygoround all happen to be white - black players can "network" too.

Positive discrimination isn't the way to address anything, and especially not the issue of people getting jobs that they havent earned on merit, appointing someone because theyre black is the opposite of an on-merit appointment. The Rooney Rule? Well at least that has some merit (you don't get guaranteed a job but are at least given the opportunity to be heard which, if the closed shop thing is right, might help a black person to get a foot in the door). Maybe they could invest more in trying to get black people (particularly ex-players) onto coaching courses - how many black ex-players currently hold the highest coaching qualifications? If its loads but they can't even get a job at Lincoln City then there's obviously a deeper problem but if there aren't many then maybe that's where to start, not shoehorning them into jobs they aren't the best person for.

25% of players aren't white.
18% of people on FA coaching courses aren't white.
Yet only 3% of managers and coaches aren't white.

There is a deeper problem.
 
.......... pc gone mad again. The day that one black, coffee-coloured or whatever hue coach does well and produces the goods, he'll be snapped up by the big clubs on merit - and on merit alone - but promoting anyone just on account of the shade of their skin colour is wrong. Treating anyone differently, positively or negatively - solely on account of their skin colour shade is racist. In this respect we all ought to be colour-blind.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/10/players-call-one-five-coaches-ethnic-minorities-2020
Someone never got the memo
 
.......... pc gone mad again. The day that one black, coffee-coloured or whatever hue coach does well and produces the goods, he'll be snapped up by the big clubs on merit - and on merit alone - but promoting anyone just on account of the shade of their skin colour is wrong. Treating anyone differently, positively or negatively - solely on account of their skin colour shade is racist. In this respect we all ought to be colour-blind.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/10/players-call-one-five-coaches-ethnic-minorities-2020

There's clearly something not right here. Loads and loads of black and coloured players and hardly any black or coloured managers or coaches. It seems very apparent that they are getting overlooked and not given a chance. Why? This is not PC gone mad just an attempt to try and answer this conundrum. Every single time race is raised people on here go 'PC gone mad'. Why? Do you feel threatened?

The Rooney rule is a good one - it demands no quotas just ensure ethnic minorities get a chance to be considered - whats wrong with that?

Even if we are being selfish we are not choosing from a big enough pool by not considering black candidates. Maybe if the game did get more black/ethnic minority coaches we might end up with a few decent English managers - unlike now.
 
Havn't posted in a while, but this subject is always going to draw me back in.

Are the FA going to be putting out a dulux colur chart that each team should be trying to cover in their staffing?
 
The pool isn't ex players though or even FA licensed coaches is it?

The lowest standard required is UEFA B licensed coaches with passable English, and for a Prem appointment that needs to be UEFA A licensed, and usually with prior top flight experience.

What % of those are ethnic minorities?
 
Maybe don't post at all eh?

seriously though, if black managers can point to specific instances where they feel that racism has been used to decise a position, then hold the club in question to account.

positive discrimination is always going to cause a divide - why can't they go down a route that encourages more black people to take up their coaching licences in the first place - giving them a better chance of getting these high profile jobs.
 
The pool isn't ex players though or even FA licensed coaches is it?

The lowest standard required is UEFA B licensed coaches with passable English, and for a Prem appointment that needs to be UEFA A licensed, and usually with prior top flight experience.

What % of those are ethnic minorities?

This is the kind of thing i dont remember seeing an answer to. If someone can show that there are loads of black ex-players (because, rightly or wrongly, the vast majority of management jobs go to ex-players) who possess the uefa a licence but who cant get a prem job while similarly experienced white people do then maybe theres a problem, if they cant even get football league jobs then theres a massive problem. But how many of these well qualified black ex-players are there, i'd be very interested to find out.
 
seriously though, if black managers can point to specific instances where they feel that racism has been used to decise a position, then hold the club in question to account.

positive discrimination is always going to cause a divide - why can't they go down a route that encourages more black people to take up their coaching licences in the first place - giving them a better chance of getting these high profile jobs.
Specific instances? Where it's institutionalised that's pretty hard

There is a problem unfortunately, and it needs sorting

I'm not a fan of positive discrimination btw, but sometimes needs must
 
.......... pc gone mad again. The day that one black, coffee-coloured or whatever hue coach does well and produces the goods, he'll be snapped up by the big clubs on merit - and on merit alone - but promoting anyone just on account of the shade of their skin colour is wrong. Treating anyone differently, positively or negatively - solely on account of their skin colour shade is racist. In this respect we all ought to be colour-blind.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/10/players-call-one-five-coaches-ethnic-minorities-2020


Did you even stop to read the article you're quoting? It's not calling for 'positive' discrimination at all, it's asking why there aren't more minorities in the game, and it's questioning whether that's down to discrimination.

Mind, don't let that get in the way of your 'PC gone mad' bullshit.
 
It's far too simplistic just to look at the number of players in the game and say that this should be reflected in the number of managers. Many, many black players, particularly at the ages when they are being picked up by clubs, have physical advantages over their white and Asian counterparts. On average they are bigger, stronger, faster, so they are more likely to get noticed and signed up by professional clubs.

As a coach or a manager, those physical attributes are no longer needed. They need to be tacticians, strong motivators, good communicators etc. It's not really a surprise if kids who have overcome physical disadvantages to be successful in the game, have done so by their abilities in other areas - such as understanding the game, vision, tactics, motivation etc. Things that will help them if they want to go into management.

That is obviously a very sweeping generalisation, as of course there are white players in the former category and black players who fall into the latter one, but its no more sweeping than imagining that 25% of coaches should be black.

Just looking at the Premier League, 40% of coaches are from overseas, so the % of black players in this country is really irrelevant there. One never played beyond reserve level, and coached for over a decade, travelling across Europe to study some of the best coaches in the world before he got his first management post. Three of them have over 25 years experience, so are always likely to have an advantage in an interview over a newly qualified coach without anything on his cv. Which leaves 8 posts available to UK players of any colour
 
This is the kind of thing i dont remember seeing an answer to. If someone can show that there are loads of black ex-players (because, rightly or wrongly, the vast majority of management jobs go to ex-players) who possess the uefa a licence but who cant get a prem job while similarly experienced white people do then maybe theres a problem, if they cant even get football league jobs then theres a massive problem. But how many of these well qualified black ex-players are there, i'd be very interested to find out.
Martin Samuel from the Daily Mail done a bit of work on this about 12 months back. I can't remember the figures now, but having two managers was a correct representation of how many black coaches were going for the top coaching badges at the time. To make this work in the longterm, maybe they should start at the grassroots level and promote more ethnic minorities into coaching for the bottom up then in a few years you will see more coaches being qualified enough to go for the top jobs. Just a thought like.
 
From the metro

For example, new figures show that just 6.7% of BME coaches are taking FA coaching qualifications.
That number reduces to just 5.1% for those taking higher level accreditation such as the FA UEFA B, UEFA A and UEFA Pro-license.
So, 5.1% of BME coaches complete advanced courses and hold 3.4% of senior coaching roles within professional football.
That’s a drop-off of just 1.7% who make it from the classroom into the game – hardly a figure that would scream out to statisticians as being significant when factoring in the competitiveness of the industry, as well as the finite number of jobs in circulation.

https://metro.co.uk/2014/11/10/is-t...n-coaching-really-so-black-and-white-4943082/
 
It's far too simplistic just to look at the number of players in the game and say that this should be reflected in the number of managers. Many, many black players, particularly at the ages when they are being picked up by clubs, have physical advantages over their white and Asian counterparts. On average they are bigger, stronger, faster, so they are more likely to get noticed and signed up by professional clubs.

As a coach or a manager, those physical attributes are no longer needed. They need to be tacticians, strong motivators, good communicators etc. It's not really a surprise if kids who have overcome physical disadvantages to be successful in the game, have done so by their abilities in other areas - such as understanding the game, vision, tactics, motivation etc. Things that will help them if they want to go into management.

That is obviously a very sweeping generalisation, as of course there are white players in the former category and black players who fall into the latter one, but its no more sweeping than imagining that 25% of coaches should be black.

Just looking at the Premier League, 40% of coaches are from overseas, so the % of black players in this country is really irrelevant there. One never played beyond reserve level, and coached for over a decade, travelling across Europe to study some of the best coaches in the world before he got his first management post. Three of them have over 25 years experience, so are always likely to have an advantage in an interview over a newly qualified coach without anything on his cv. Which leaves 8 posts available to UK players of any colour
Aye Walcott, Lennon, Wright Phillips, Gibbs, Chamberlain are all massive physical specimens.

And Bryan Robson, Steve Bruce and Tony Adams are highly intelligent men, overcoming their physical shortcomings.

A very sweeping generalisation? You think?!
 
It's far too simplistic just to look at the number of players in the game and say that this should be reflected in the number of managers. Many, many black players, particularly at the ages when they are being picked up by clubs, have physical advantages over their white and Asian counterparts. On average they are bigger, stronger, faster, so they are more likely to get noticed and signed up by professional clubs.

As a coach or a manager, those physical attributes are no longer needed. They need to be tacticians, strong motivators, good communicators etc. It's not really a surprise if kids who have overcome physical disadvantages to be successful in the game, have done so by their abilities in other areas - such as understanding the game, vision, tactics, motivation etc. Things that will help them if they want to go into management.

That is obviously a very sweeping generalisation, as of course there are white players in the former category and black players who fall into the latter one, but its no more sweeping than imagining that 25% of coaches should be black.

Just looking at the Premier League, 40% of coaches are from overseas, so the % of black players in this country is really irrelevant there. One never played beyond reserve level, and coached for over a decade, travelling across Europe to study some of the best coaches in the world before he got his first management post. Three of them have over 25 years experience, so are always likely to have an advantage in an interview over a newly qualified coach without anything on his cv. Which leaves 8 posts available to UK players of any colour


If you keep on talking sense, you'll get sent to Coventry! ;)
 
Aye Walcott, Lennon, Wright Phillips, Gibbs, Chamberlain are all massive physical specimens.

And Bryan Robson, Steve Bruce and Tony Adams are highly intelligent men, overcoming their physical shortcomings.

A very sweeping generalisation? You think?!
You missed the word "faster" in my post
Robson, Bruce and Adams all displayed strong leadership qualities as players. I agree with you that they don't come across as the sharpest tools in the box though
 
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