Quotas for coloured coaches...


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Jesus Christ. Please, stop talking now. It's 2014 for fuck's sake.


Yep it's 2014 and people are asking why the number of BEM players currently in football is not reflected in the number of managers in professional football. Instead of making snide comments, perhaps you might care to venture as to why this is so. Be careful what you say though as it is a potentially dangerous topic.

The same goes for our resident buffoon Chunky.
 
Isn't that the problem.

They are qualified and do apply but they don't get interviewed.

No, generally speaking, the problem is them not going for the badges, possibly (nobody really knows but it's being put forward as a suggestion) because many of them feel that there will be no job for them at the end of it. The stats show that 5.1% of UEFA B and above qualified coaches are black and 3.4% of coaches in PL and FL clubs are black. I haven't seen the stats for white British coaches, but I expect there to be a very similar disparity between qualified and in work white British coaches, given the number of posts filled by overseas born coaches, and the fact that experienced coaches move from job to job restricting opportunities for newly qualified coaches of all races.

The idea that 25% of players should equate to 25% of managers is a nonsense for a number of reasons.

The number of players playing now is irrelevant. It's the number of ex-players that is relevant. which will be a very different percentage
40% of PL managers are from overseas, and a further two (Lambert and Rodgers never played professionally in this country)
The likes of Warnock and Redknapp can quote over 30 years experience on their cvs, starting at a time when most FL clubs had only had one or two black players in their entire history. Of course their cv's are going to have an advantage over newly qualified coaches - black or white
The qualities needed to be a player are very different from those needed to be a manager or coach. Black players are overrepresented on the playing side due to physical attributes that don't help them when they become coaches
You don't necessarily even need to have played professionally to become a coach or manager (though of course the huge majority of coaches will have done)
 
If we adopt the Rooney rule in this country will I have to shag old prossies to get a coaching job?

But seriously I've spent upwards of £25000 on my coach education and I've reached a glass ceiling. Being qualified doesn't mean I can walk into a top job. Connections help as does a reputation or stellar playing career but difficulties in being recruited aren't restricted to the BME demographic of our society.

In my opinion there aren't enough bald, slightly colour blind (no correlation to the un PC thread title), allergic to mushroom managers in this country.

Take that campaign forward PFA!!

Bassas.
 
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If we adopt the Rooney rule in this country will I have to shag old prossies to get a coaching job?

But seriously I've spent upwards of £25000 on my coach education and I've reached a glass ceiling. Being qualified doesn't mean I can walk into a top job. Connections help as does a reputation or stellar playing career but difficulties in being recruited aren't restricted to the BME demographic of our society.

In my opinion there aren't enough bald, slightly colour blind (no correlation to the un PC thread title), allergic to mushroom managers in this country.

Take that campaign forward PFA!!

Bassas.
What level do you coach at mate and has it been worthwhile spending all that money?
 
Isn't that the problem.

They are qualified and do apply but they don't get interviewed.

No.

The numbers of BME coaches with UEFA A or B Licences in the UK is not in keeping with the % of BME players. Look at Bramble's quotes - he can't think of any black player's he's played with that showed any ambition to get in to coaching. We certainly need to ask why that's the case - why do they seem so unwilling to go down that route? It's easy to say it's because they're not getting a chance but surely you need to at least come halfway and try to gain the qualifications necessary to warrant an interview.

I would be right behind any BME coach who had been continually denied an interview despite their qualifications and experience suggesting they should be given one. I'd hope that any put in that position would be vocal about it rather than stay quiet in the fear it would further reduce their chances going forward. Unfortunately, there's not too many BME ex players saying that. The vocal ones appear to be saying that they should be given an interview purely based on their playing career and colour of their skin. I think there's only maybe Brian Deane that I've heard allude to that and even then he openly said he had no experience so made a move to Norway to try and gain some to improve his CV and hopefully be considered for more roles in the future.

If someone can give me a list of BME coaches who have been denied interviews for roles commensurate with their qualifications and experience that would be greatly appreciated.

In addition, why aren't the likes of Ollie Holt making it their mission to go to the likes of Dwight Yorke, Andy Cole, Ian Wright, Stan Collymore, David James, Dion Dublin and Emile Heskey - all players with glittering top flight careers - and ask them why they didn't go into coaching? Apologies if there are some interviews with those players out there that touch on the subject.
 
.......... pc gone mad again. The day that one black, coffee-coloured or whatever hue coach does well and produces the goods, he'll be snapped up by the big clubs on merit - and on merit alone - but promoting anyone just on account of the shade of their skin colour is wrong. Treating anyone differently, positively or negatively - solely on account of their skin colour shade is racist. In this respect we all ought to be colour-blind.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/10/players-call-one-five-coaches-ethnic-minorities-2020

I'll get on any coloured bus me.
 
So that's that then. The rooney rule would do no harm whatsoever, might actually do some good and we ought to, and will, give it a shot.

It's not often we all agree!
 
The term Black (which apparently includes Asian and other dark skin races) has come into the Mainstream speech over the all 10 years, I've got an Asian mate who hates being called black..does that make him a racist

Since when - Asian is Asian they're not black?
 
In addition, why aren't the likes of Ollie Holt making it their mission to go to the likes of Dwight Yorke, Andy Cole, Ian Wright, Stan Collymore, David James, Dion Dublin and Emile Heskey - all players with glittering top flight careers - and ask them why they didn't go into coaching? Apologies if there are some interviews with those players out there that touch on the subject.

Andy Cole "Yeah, you always think ‘management, I’d love to give it a crack!’ It’s a case of opportunities being given, but you need coaching qualifications and all that. But I’m not into qualifications.
Look at all the managers who have been managing for years – when they started they didn’t need qualifications. Football is knowledge. When you’ve played at the highest level for a number of years, which I’ve been fortunate enough to do, I’d like to believe my knowledge of the game is more than enough qualification to implement ideas on my team.
Interview here http://bornoffside.net/2011/11/exclusive-andrew-cole-interview/

Wright coached at MK Dons but left as it interfered with his "other commitments" http://www.mkweb.co.uk/Football-Ars...role-MK-Dons/story-22270194-detail/story.html
 
Yep it's 2014 and people are asking why the number of BEM players currently in football is not reflected in the number of managers in professional football. Instead of making snide comments, perhaps you might care to venture as to why this is so. Be careful what you say though as it is a potentially dangerous topic.

The same goes for our resident buffoon Chunky.

Why is anyone that bothered though? Is it something that we are expected to have a collective guilt trip about?

If/when there's a quota of 'BEM' coaches will we then need to feel guilty about the lack of female, gay, trasngender, amputee, blind etc. coaches?
 
The Rooney rule in the US addressed a much deeper issue, imo.

Athletes in that sport are outsider commodities, often taken out of deprived and majority-black communities and implanted into privileged majority-white colleges. In a country built on black slavery, there's a slightly odd undercurrent of division between the races in the NFL - black people are powerful physical specimens that exist to do what the smart white people tell them to do.

This culture doesn't exist in English football. Everyone has the same opportunity to get into the professional game, and everyone has the same access to badges when they near the end of their career.

Here's a starting XI of black former England players who are at or near management age;

David James - bankrupt, after trying to get rich via trading. Has managed in low quality, high earning leagues - China, India. No coaching badges.

Rio Ferdinand - Baseball cap salesman, TV pundit. No coaching badges.
Des Walker - Currently playing exhibition games around the world. Started his coaching badges, gave up.
Sol Campbell - Claims the FA choose Gary Neville over him on the grounds of race. Sol Campbell has yet to complete his badges.
Ashley Cole - Playing in Italy, planning move to US. No coaching badges.
Carlton Palmer - Pundit. Set up coaching schools in Dubai and China, but no formal coaching badges.

Paul Ince - Has badges. 8 year managerial career now stalled after repeated failure.
John Barnes - Has Badges. Managerial career now stalled after repeated failure.
Shaun Wright Phillips - Still playing. No badges.

Les Ferdinand - Has badges, former coach of Spurs.
Andy Cole - Believes that "there’s still a glass ceiling when it comes to black players in management”. No badges.


It strikes me that there's a strong correlation between having coaching badges and getting coaching jobs.

But I'm no expert.
 
The Rooney rule in the US addressed a much deeper issue, imo.

Athletes in that sport are outsider commodities, often taken out of deprived and majority-black communities and implanted into privileged majority-white colleges. In a country built on black slavery, there's a slightly odd undercurrent of division between the races in the NFL - black people are powerful physical specimens that exist to do what the smart white people tell them to do.

This culture doesn't exist in English football. Everyone has the same opportunity to get into the professional game, and everyone has the same access to badges when they near the end of their career.

Here's a starting XI of black former England players who are at or near management age;

David James - bankrupt, after trying to get rich via trading. Has managed in low quality, high earning leagues - China, India. No coaching badges.

Rio Ferdinand - Baseball cap salesman, TV pundit. No coaching badges.
Des Walker - Currently playing exhibition games around the world. Started his coaching badges, gave up.
Sol Campbell - Claims the FA choose Gary Neville over him on the grounds of race. Sol Campbell has yet to complete his badges.
Ashley Cole - Playing in Italy, planning move to US. No coaching badges.
Carlton Palmer - Pundit. Set up coaching schools in Dubai and China, but no formal coaching badges.

Paul Ince - Has badges. 8 year managerial career now stalled after repeated failure.
John Barnes - Has Badges. Managerial career now stalled after repeated failure.
Shaun Wright Phillips - Still playing. No badges.

Les Ferdinand - Has badges, former coach of Spurs.
Andy Cole - Believes that "there’s still a glass ceiling when it comes to black players in management”. No badges.


It strikes me that there's a strong correlation between having coaching badges and getting coaching jobs.

But I'm no expert.

Any idea which black ex-players have badges and have been overlooked and never had a job?
 
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