Question for the referees on here


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Re: Denying a goal scoring opportunity vs denying a certain goal

Goalkeepers are treated differently, it's the only specialist position on the field.

Here's a bizarre hypothical for you illustrate why:

Goalkeepers throw themselves head first at the feet of attackers, imagine if Seb has the ball at his feet in the centre circle and suddenly Tiote comes flying in head first like a spear, heads the ball away and clatters into Seb.

That's fine then, as long as he doesn't handle it?

I'd pay good money to see that on a regular basis.
 
Well, the point of the rules isn't to punish 'keepers. The reason was, as stated above, to prevent time wasting. What you're saying is, since the rule has been brought in that we take it to extreme lengths and make the 'keeper's job more difficult for no other reason than to carry on the "back pass rule" to its conclusion.

All it is is a rule to discourage time wasting by giving the ball back to the other team if it occurs. Once you start sending off, nay yellow carding, 'keepers for doing their job, you're descending into "interfering with play" offside madness. :lol:

Fair enough. Thats your opinion and its a fair one.

I've been delighted with wasting my lunchbreak explaining my own! But back to work now!

Mind, I wish someone had noticed my expert use of the white text in post 198. I even managed to whoosh zebadiah!
 
Well, the point of the rules isn't to punish 'keepers. The reason was, as stated above, to prevent time wasting. What you're saying is, since the rule has been brought in that we take it to extreme lengths and make the 'keeper's job more difficult for no other reason than to carry on the "back pass rule" to its conclusion.

All it is is a rule to discourage time wasting by giving the ball back to the other team if it occurs. Once you start sending off, nay yellow carding, 'keepers for doing their job, you're descending into "interfering with play" offside madness. :lol:

Blows thread full time whistle.
 
Re: Denying a goal scoring opportunity vs denying a certain goal

Goalkeepers are treated differently, it's the only specialist position on the field.

Here's a bizarre hypothical for you illustrate why:

Goalkeepers throw themselves head first at the feet of attackers, imagine if Seb has the ball at his feet in the centre circle and suddenly Tiote comes flying in head first like a spear, heads the ball away and clatters into Seb.

That's fine then, as long as he doesn't handle it?

Its funny I nearly brought this up to help explain my point.

A goalkeeper can dive at feet because he can handle the ball. Therefore its not cheating for him to be diving at feet in a manner similar as you describe (if we're being sensible and not using words like spear!)

In the box.

Outside the box however then, yep, if he dives at feet and goes to ground like lots of goalkeepers do - then, absolutely, its cheating, its a red card. He should be treated the same as a right back outside the box.
 
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Re: Denying a goal scoring opportunity vs denying a certain goal

Goalkeepers are treated differently, it's the only specialist position on the field.

Here's a bizarre hypothical for you illustrate why:

Goalkeepers throw themselves head first at the feet of attackers, imagine if Seb has the ball at his feet in the centre circle and suddenly Tiote comes flying in head first like a spear, heads the ball away and clatters into Seb.

That's fine then, as long as he doesn't handle it?

Expanding on this point, goalkeepers have far too many special priveleges. How many penalties do you see given for the keeper coming out to punch a corner, missing and twatting some bloke in the head? I haven't seent that once. Also jumping to collect things with their knee/studs out, preventing any sort of fair challenge for the ball
 
Re: Denying a goal scoring opportunity vs denying a certain goal

Expanding on this point, goalkeepers have far too many special priveleges. How many penalties do you see given for the keeper coming out to punch a corner, missing and twatting some bloke in the head? I haven't seent that once. Also jumping to collect things with their knee/studs out, preventing any sort of fair challenge for the ball

Defence, innit. What is the ratio of goalkeepers to outfield players who've been stretchered off the field with facial and/or head inuries, considering that there's only two on the pitch. ;)
 
Re: Backpasses

I understand the rules of the game and I know it would be impossible for the ref to give Mig a red given the rules. But, fuck me, the rule has to change. If a keeper deliberately handles it then he has to go.


Really. Take a look at the situation again:
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At the point he mis-kicks it, there is one Everton forward and 3 defenders between him and the goal, with two Everton players just behind him. He made a poor decision, executed it badly and forced Mingolet into making the choice to catch or conceed.

In this situation, Everton were not in control of the ball or in a good position to score if they did have it, as they still had 3 defenders and a keeper to beat. Larrson made a silly mistake, not dangerous, nobody was going to get hurt, and not a deliberate cheat like pulling down a player from behind when they are through on goal. Just one badly executed pass, that did not intend to waste time.

If a team had their keeper sent off and a penalty awarded, that would have pretty much handed the game to Everton. And for what, pressuring a defending player into a miss-kick? The foul was not game changing and as such the punishment should never be too.
 
Re: Denying a goal scoring opportunity vs denying a certain goal

I'm really struggling to understand where you're going with this.

In Example 1 (Seb) clearly it isnt a goalscoring opportunity because, as you say, he was running back to his own goal :lol: As bad as Sebs backpass was I dont think he is a credible constant own goal threat! And even if he was I dont think an Everton player can be sent off for denying his own team a goal!

Example 2 is completely different. A goalscoring opportunity had presented itself because it was flying like a missile into an open net. Its as nailed on a goalscoring opportunity as you're likely to get. Much more likely than Seb ambling about in his own half looking to handle the routine situation you described!
Example 2 isn't different at all for the same reason. Towards own goal = no goal scoring opportunity. lol
 
Re: Denying a goal scoring opportunity vs denying a certain goal

Example 2 isn't different at all for the same reason. Towards own goal = no goal scoring opportunity. lol

You must be high?

Are you seriously telling me what Mignolet prevented was no more of a goal scoring opportunity for Everton than if Larsson hadnt decided to boot the ball at all?

Because you're quite, quite wrong. The ball was hurtling into the net at breakneck speed.

Really. Take a look at the situation again:
Logon or register to see this image


At the point he mis-kicks it, there is one Everton forward and 3 defenders between him and the goal, with two Everton players just behind him. He made a poor decision, executed it badly and forced Mingolet into making the choice to catch or conceed.

In this situation, Everton were not in control of the ball or in a good position to score if they did have it, as they still had 3 defenders and a keeper to beat. Larrson made a silly mistake, not dangerous, nobody was going to get hurt, and not a deliberate cheat like pulling down a player from behind when they are through on goal. Just one badly executed pass, that did not intend to waste time.

If a team had their keeper sent off and a penalty awarded, that would have pretty much handed the game to Everton. And for what, pressuring a defending player into a miss-kick? The foul was not game changing and as such the punishment should never be too.

How would you feel if instead of a keeper catching the ball it was a defender?

Would you still argue for no red card in the rulebook on the basis that the attacking team hadnt forced the mistake?
 
Re: Denying a goal scoring opportunity vs denying a certain goal

How would you feel if instead of a keeper catching the ball it was a defender?

Would you still argue for no red card in the rulebook on the basis that the attacking team hadnt forced the mistake?

Haway man, not a serious question, surely?

I'm actually really sursprised that anyone thinks that a 'keeper and an outfield player should be treated the same.
 
Re: Denying a goal scoring opportunity vs denying a certain goal

You must be high?

Are you seriously telling me what Mignolet prevented was no more of a goal scoring opportunity for Everton than if Larsson hadnt decided to boot the ball at all?

Because you're quite, quite wrong. The ball was hurtling into the net at breakneck speed.



How would you feel if instead of a keeper catching the ball it was a defender?

Would you still argue for no red card in the rulebook on the basis that the attacking team hadnt forced the mistake?

I genuinely can't believe this argument is still going. :lol:

The rule has been in football for 21 years now and it is how it is for a reason. It was brought into the game to stop a specific problem and it does that.

Seb Larsson could just say 'it wasn't an intentional backpass' and all of a sudden you have the possibility of a goalkeeper actually sent off for making a save.
 
Re: Denying a goal scoring opportunity vs denying a certain goal

Haway man, not a serious question, surely?

I'm actually really sursprised that anyone thinks that a 'keeper and an outfield player should be treated the same.

It was an honest question.

He was implying that the only reason he thinks it wasnt a goal scoring opportunity was because we fucked up to present it to Everton. If that was his only reason for thinking Mig shouldnt face a red card then surely it would be irrelevant if it were Mig, Bardsley or Rose who made the catch.

TBF I thought you and aj the mackem made a decent enough case. But that fella made a seperate point and for some reason (its who I am ;)) I felt obliged to present my argument against it.
 
Re: Denying a goal scoring opportunity vs denying a certain goal

It was an honest question.

He was implying that the only reason he thinks it wasnt a goal scoring opportunity was because we fucked up to present it to Everton. If that was his only reason for thinking Mig shouldnt face a red card then surely it would be irrelevant if it were Mig, Bardsley or Rose who made the catch.

TBF I thought you and aj the mackem made a decent enough case. But that fella made a seperate point and for some reason (its who I am ;)) I felt obliged to present my argument against it.

The crux of it seems to be that 'keepers are a special case, and you think they shouldn't, which is fair enough. You're wrong like. ;)

It's true that Mig made a decision to catch the ball, and if he was outside the box he probably should see red, but he wasn't so he's covered.
 
So was it a red or not?

Keeper can't be sent off for handling inside his box can he?
No

No

The rule wasn't meant to stop keepers from doing things like this, it was meant to stop certain teams from passing between the keeper and back four for half the game.

IMO the rule needs changing to allow keepers to parry back passes.
 
Re: Denying a goal scoring opportunity vs denying a certain goal

It was an honest question.

He was implying that the only reason he thinks it wasnt a goal scoring opportunity was because we fucked up to present it to Everton. If that was his only reason for thinking Mig shouldnt face a red card then surely it would be irrelevant if it were Mig, Bardsley or Rose who made the catch.

TBF I thought you and aj the mackem made a decent enough case. But that fella made a seperate point and for some reason (its who I am ;)) I felt obliged to present my argument against it.

My reasoning, assuming you're referring to me, is that you can only have a goal scoring opportunity when you are attacking. Everton were not attacking as they didn't have the ball. I'm going to stop posting on this thread as this discussion is hurting my head.
 
Re: Denying a goal scoring opportunity vs denying a certain goal

Pretty much, yeah.



I think Mig knew what he was doing.

But this would be the call for the ref.

He already has to decide if a penalty was deliberate handball or not before he gives a penalty. And they always get em right dont they? ;)

So if we use your "rules" a keeper handling a backpass gives away a penalty and gets sent off. In a lot of cases a backpass is a fairly subjective thing so do you want the keeper to let a goal in just in case he might have been sent off if the ref determines it's a backpass.

Of course Mig knew what he was doing - he understands the laws of the game as they stand!!!
 
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Re: Denying a goal scoring opportunity vs denying a certain goal

So if we use your "rules" a keeper handling a backpass gives away a penalty and gets sent off. In a lot of cases a backpass is a fairly subjective thing so do you want the keeper to let a goal in just in case he might have been sent off if the ref determines it's a backpass.

OK an honest question; I'll give an honest answer. If the ref thinks a backpass could sensibly have been interpretted as a deflection or an accidental flick of the foot, not intended to go to the keeper - then I wouldnt argue for a card of any sort. In this case an indirect free kick is plenty.

However if its plain as day that the keeper has broken the rules deliberately to prevent a goal then yeah I'd make the case for a red card.
 
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