Putting house into trust - incase ever go into care

My granda recently got put in a home up castletown for dementia/alzheimers and they give him 30 pound allowance a week for fags and stuff, he had state and army pension, now my nanna went the same way same allowance she only has state pension, do they charge the same to care for them or take the lot and leave em the same allowance, nowt against the carers ive seen how some old folk are up there it looks like hard work and they need all the care and patience they can get with how some are hour to hour but how does it work? Who decides the cost the owner of the care homes or does government set the rates?
 


arthursboy said:
See a solicitor Fletch, people have different opinions on this, but I’m told it can be done, by a solicitor and an independent financial advisor, I’m doing it.
Average annual charge for care up here is £30-£40k per year, so doesn’t take long for the house to go.

One tale I heard when they signed the house over to the bairn, the bairn secured debt against the house and failed to pay the debt off, house was repossessed.

Another one, the house was gave to his daughter, she married then died.
House now belongs to the son in law.
Son in law married again, then the son in law died.
House now belongs to a stranger, who kicks the original owner out.

Best intentions in the world to give it to the kids can end up a huge problem.
I will let you know once mine is sorted.
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I saw a solicitor about my mam’s situation and she doubted what I had done stating that the council could claim I had deliberately denied them the funds if my mam went in to care.
I had, in reality, but when the trust document was signed my mam’s health was okay and how could the council prove what I had done and why? It was also the opposite, how could I prove I hadn’t done it to stop the council getting the money? I couldn’t.
The council accepted the trust document and the house is safe, but maybe this rule will be tightened in the future.
 
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JJH said:
Don't want to question you but meds are supposed to be administrated by a nurse or a suitably qualified senior who has done the training.
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We don't 'administer', we 'prompt' meds, normally from a sealed daily dosset box. Of course we're trained in how to do it, especially for those with varying doses such as warfarin.
 
Mixed views on this. Totally get it that people want to hand down hard earned bricks & mortar and that crap pensions and high house prices mean inheritance can be a big help to the recipients having a more comfortable later life. On the other hand, it’s a clear as day tax dodge and once you get into that you are a massive hypocrite if you try and occupy any sort of socialist / Tory critical position when it comes to taxation, public spending etc.
 
Emma Chisset said:
We don't 'administer', we 'prompt' meds, normally from a sealed daily dosset box. Of course we're trained in how to do it, especially for those with varying doses such as warfarin.
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I know that’s the case for homecare but you were mentioning it for a Care home which is different
 
As has already been said, THERE IS NO SEVEN YEAR RULE . If your parents want to pass on their house to their kids just go to a solicitor and do a change of ownership . You can do it yourself just get the forms from the land registry but the forms are complex (my daughter did mime) As long as it's done before dementia is actually diagnosed (can be years after it's suspected) the council can't touch you . NB get the money anarl while you're about it . We got me da in laws house and dosh but the council got all but about 20 odd quid of his £500 a week pension .
He was in Eden House in Bishop which was excellent as were the staff .
 
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Dogbark said:
The seven-year rule relates to inheritance tax. LA determining 'deprivation of assets' is done differently.
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This. The 7 year rules is a form of taper relief for gifts. If you die within a year of making the gift IHT will be at 100%. If you day a couple of years later the tax will be less until you reach 7 years when it`s 0%. Different Councils have different rules and some can go back years and claw back the value of the house, others have a set period of time after which you`re in the clear. There`s not really a fool proof way of doing it.
 
Fletch said:
anybody done it and does it work ? to stop the council using it to pay for care home fees ?
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i did it, trouble was, few years later, I got divorced and court ruled as mothers house in my name the ex kept the marital one, 1 house each rule.
Mother still going strong, so was left homeless and all my capital tied up in marital home.In short, I was shafted.
 
Emma Chisset said:
It sounds like you're something of an experienced expert in the care sector then, compared to me, a lowly carer.

I didn't insult the carers at care homes and never would. They are my comrades. However they would be the first to tell you about the dearth of staff compared to residents and how agency staff (often with very poor English) are regular and sometimes the majority. More time is spent explaining to them what to do because it's their first time there than attending to the residents. They'd also tell you how great chunks of time are spent taking round meds and more meds and then more meds and recording everything on forms, leaving little time for bonding with and caring for the residents.

I certainly never accused anyone of stealing, which was your own stinking invention, but you might like to know that I took a chap out for a social this week (ex-RAF squadron leader with quite severe alzheimers) and over coffee he produced two presents for me from his pockets. He didn't want them and said I should have them. Very insistent.

One was a rolled up ball of socks and the other was a gold Rolex watch.

As you are quite the expert when it comes to carers, you will already know whether I kept them or whether I took them, returned them to his wife, documented what had happened and reported it to the office.
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My wife works in a care home. The talk of non English speakers and meds is bullshit based on where she works so excuse me if I struggle to believe anything else you post on the subject.
 
Roaring Chubby said:
Mixed views on this. Totally get it that people want to hand down hard earned bricks & mortar and that crap pensions and high house prices mean inheritance can be a big help to the recipients having a more comfortable later life. On the other hand, it’s a clear as day tax dodge and once you get into that you are a massive hypocrite if you try and occupy any sort of socialist / Tory critical position when it comes to taxation, public spending etc.
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Agree, I'm mixed on this aswel.

My dad and mam had their mortgage paid off before I was born, then they got divorced, my dad had to then take out a mortgage to buy my mam out.

Basically hed paid twice to own his house to pass down to me, he was a miner and worked in unbelievable conditions just to buy his house back then to loose it all while the alcoholic, never worked a day in his life in the next room, got the same treatment for free
 
Malloy said:
Agree, I'm mixed on this aswel.

My dad and mam had their mortgage paid off before I was born, then they got divorced, my dad had to then take out a mortgage to buy my mam out.

Basically hed paid twice to own his house to pass down to me, he was a miner and worked in unbelievable conditions just to buy his house back then to loose it all while the alcoholic, never worked a day in his life in the next room, got the same treatment for free
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Don’t get mad get even!
 
It's a very complex issue, assets could be tied up in legal argument for years. The HMRC are all over this kind of stuff and the chances are your family will lose out.

Either pay for a top solicitor or pay your dues, either way it won't be cheap.
 
Roaring Chubby said:
Mixed views on this. Totally get it that people want to hand down hard earned bricks & mortar and that crap pensions and high house prices mean inheritance can be a big help to the recipients having a more comfortable later life. On the other hand, it’s a clear as day tax dodge and once you get into that you are a massive hypocrite if you try and occupy any sort of socialist / Tory critical position when it comes to taxation, public spending etc.
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I agree, under the current system its a tax dodge to try to get around this.

The thing is, basic "council" elderly care shouldn't be at any cost to the individual. If you want to go to a nicer place, then yes, you should have to top-up - but where I live, I believe they are all council funded, but they take everything you have from you and give you the exact same as everyone else.
That's just as wrong as the tax dodge bit you mentioned imo. That's communism, not socialism.
Town End Farmer Giles said:
My wife works in a care home. The talk of non English speakers and meds is bullshit based on where she works so excuse me if I struggle to believe anything else you post on the subject.
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The carers in the place my Grandad was in were brilliant. Considering the pay they get, they are amazing.
Malloy said:
Agree, I'm mixed on this aswel.

My dad and mam had their mortgage paid off before I was born, then they got divorced, my dad had to then take out a mortgage to buy my mam out.

Basically hed paid twice to own his house to pass down to me, he was a miner and worked in unbelievable conditions just to buy his house back then to loose it all while the alcoholic, never worked a day in his life in the next room, got the same treatment for free
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That's exactly the scenario I'm getting at. This stuff has to be fair. And it just isn't right now.
 
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PTR said:
I agree, under the current system its a tax dodge to try to get around this.

The thing is, basic "council" elderly care shouldn't be at any cost to the individual. If you want to go to a nicer place, then yes, you should have to top-up - but where I live, I believe they are all council funded, but they take everything you have from you and give you the exact same as everyone else.
That's just as wrong as the tax dodge bit you mentioned imo. That's communism, not socialism.

The carers in the place my Grandad was in were brilliant. Considering the pay they get, they are amazing.

That's exactly the scenario I'm getting at. This stuff has to be fair. And it just isn't right now.
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I think people feel it’s harsh because the value of a house can get eaten up pretty quickly but I don’t see how the system is materially different to healthcare in general. Some people pay a lot more tax than others but everyone gets the same deal when it comes to public services. It’s bad luck if you need to pay for later life care, but it’s also bad luck if you develop cancer at a young age or get hit by a bus. Life’s curve balls.
 

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