Public Health England - PPE

And here he us our resident Conservative party spokesman. 😕

Aye that's me. Never voted tory. Take the blinkers off man.
We have one senior NHS person on here providing good insights, or we can keep letting the govt of the hook. I appreciate with your job you are paid to toe the line mind, but at some point you have to take a step back

Wanting a proper investigation and blame to be placed where it belongs is needing to step back, and blaming the government for a lorry not leaving a depot isn't.

There's no toeing the line involved. Just experience of how sacking the figurehead only leads to the same people below making the same mistakes over and over.
 
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There are all sorts of reasons why things don't happen when they should. Government failure is one option, but that would require us to believe government controls the entire NHS logistics operation right down to the scheduling and priority of shipments which seems unlikely.

The main failure of the government is the failure to prepare for such an event. You could argue that this is an NHS problem however when funding is so tight funding will always be directed toward delivering current priorities not what if contingency events.

The government could have set a side funding for this sort of thing - they’ve manage to find the moment now. Imagine the cost savings had they acquired the necessary or at least the majority of the PPE needed back in 2016/17 compared to trying to acquire it when demand is so high.

I accept however that trying to acquire PPE and other necessary equipment at this stage must be really difficult, with continents nevermind countries competing with one another.
 
Aye that's me. Never voted tory. Take the blinkers off man.


Wanting a proper investigation and blame to be placed where it belongs is needing to step back, and blaming the government for a lorry not leaving a depot isn't.

There's no toeing the line involved. Just experience of how sacking the figurehead only leads to the same people below making the same mistakes over and over.
You are being disingenuous here, there are upstream reasons why the lorry cant/wont leave. Its not down to the local dept supervisor being workshy
 
The government keep saying they have them but the distribution is the problem. That is not acceptable
I don’t believe they have them in the quantities they want.Every nation in the world is after them and stealing each other’s orders (especially the us)
That’s the reason they are discouraging the general population in the western world from wearing them,not enough to go round.
WTF go and hide in a corner pal.
Who the fuck do you think your talking to ?
I see Trump has made export of PPE illegal thus reducing availability.

US accused of ‘piracy’ over mask ‘confiscation’
This for the Tory haters,everyone everywhere wants the things.
 
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You are being disingenuous here, there are upstream reasons why the lorry cant/wont leave. Its not down to the local dept supervisor being workshy

How do you know? Nobody knows. On the balance of probability there will be failures right through the system up to and including government level.
Disingenuous is the frantic desperation to push all responsibility and therefore blame upstream.
 
We have one senior NHS person on here providing good insights, or we can keep letting the govt of the hook. I appreciate with your job you are paid to toe the line mind, but at some point you have to take a step back
Is that what it is? I’m sometimes envious and wish I could have his unfaltering, unwavering, never questioning faith in the government but then I’m no where near enough of a contortionist to bend over backwards and twist my position to find ways to consistently defend the indefensible and never fault them with anything. If only they were even a fraction as infallible as he thinks.
 
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How do you know? Nobody knows. On the balance of probability there will be failures right through the system up to and including government level.
Disingenuous is the frantic desperation to push all responsibility and therefore blame upstream.
There is a big difference between responsibility and accountability

Supply chain and logistics is very much a top down approach - unless you are suggesting that the teams at the lower levels are willfully disobeying the directions/requests or are incompetent
 
There is a big difference between responsibility and accountability

Supply chain and logistics is very much a top down approach - unless you are suggesting that the teams at the lower levels are willfully disobeying the directions/requests or are incompetent

I think we'll see incompetence from top to bottom.
Is that what it is? I’m sometimes envious and wish I could have his unfaltering, unwavering, never questioning faith in the government but then I’m no where near enough of a contortionist to bend over backwards and twist my position to find ways to consistently defend the indefensible and never fault them with anything. If only they were even a fraction as infallible as he thinks.

Projection to justify your pavlovian 'government entirely to blame' response.
 
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Hopefully when this is all over criminal charges can be brought against those who have left our Dr's and Nurses in such a position.
 
I think we'll see incompetence from top to bottom.


Projection to justify your pavlovian 'government entirely to blame' response.
I think you have a superiority complex. You seem to believe you hold and present a balanced view but your lack of self awareness is staggering. You’re probably the most partisan poster on here with your refusal to see any fault in government and total reluctance to criticise them.

The vast majority on here that you look down on are infinitely more balanced and reasonable. For example loads, including myself, are capable of praising the Tory’s fiscal support measures whilst simultaneously being critical of them failing to adequately protect the front line and incessantly lying around the matter.
 
Hopefully when this is all over criminal charges can be brought against those who have left our Dr's and Nurses in such a position.

You mean like how bankers left the world in a shambles 13 years ago and were rewarded with f***ing bonuses and bailouts?



60% of staff tested in one UK hospital have tested positive but the PPE we've been using is supposedly good enough
 
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I think you have a superiority complex. You seem to believe you hold and present a balanced view but your lack of self awareness is staggering. You’re probably the most partisan poster on here with your refusal to see any fault in government and total reluctance to criticise them.

The vast majority on here that you look down on are infinitely more balanced and reasonable. For example loads, including myself, are capable of praising the Tory’s fiscal support measures whilst simultaneously being critical of them failing to adequately protect the front line and incessantly lying around the matter.

The government to blame = balanced view.
We don't know who's to blame yet and should find out properly = partisan.
 
It's not difficult to make an evidence-based argument if you're trying to claim balance.

Those behind the new guidelines are named in the public statement.

New personal protective equipment (PPE) guidance for NHS teams


That states that we have gone above WHO recommendation.

Is it trusts making some of these calls as you see other statements from some staff saying they have plenty.

Something is going wrong down the line.. is it at the top , the distribution to the hospital or the trust distributing.

The buck stops at the top of course but where is the bottleneck occuring?
 
So the government's Public Health England department has decided to downgrade PPE. After telling us time and time again they are getting us the relevant PPE and that staff complaining we don't have enough just need to make a phone call, they are now telling us that masks can be worn for a full session.

My trust has reviewed this and has now told us we are to turn up to work and at the start of our shift, we wait outside the ward until someone inside comes and gives us one surgical mask and one pair of protective goggles. The goggles we keep indefinitely and it's up to ourselves to clean them and the surgical mask which only 2 days ago was single use only and only good for 20 minutes usage, we now have to wear for the full 12.5hr shift and we don't take them off.
Friday morning, I'd just finished doing 75 hours in 7 days, I'm f***ing knackered, unable to sleep and now I read this.
The Tories not happy they weren't able to play with the general publics lives with their 'herd immunity' bollocks have decided to play with NHS staff and patients lives instead. You couldn't f***ing make it up.
That is horrendous and will cost lives of professionals. Not sure what else can be done at the minute.
 
That states that we have gone above WHO recommendation.

Is it trusts making some of these calls as you see other statements from some staff saying they have plenty.

Something is going wrong down the line.. is it at the top , the distribution to the hospital or the trust distributing.

The buck stops at the top of course but where is the bottleneck occuring?

That's in regards to staff at highest risk.

I think what's concerning the OP is the decision made around this piece of advice:

"In some circumstances PPE, particularly masks and eye protection which is there to protect the health and care worker can be worn for an entire session and doesn’t need to be changed between patients, as long as it is safe to do so"
 
So the government's Public Health England department has decided to downgrade PPE. After telling us time and time again they are getting us the relevant PPE and that staff complaining we don't have enough just need to make a phone call, they are now telling us that masks can be worn for a full session.

My trust has reviewed this and has now told us we are to turn up to work and at the start of our shift, we wait outside the ward until someone inside comes and gives us one surgical mask and one pair of protective goggles. The goggles we keep indefinitely and it's up to ourselves to clean them and the surgical mask which only 2 days ago was single use only and only good for 20 minutes usage, we now have to wear for the full 12.5hr shift and we don't take them off.
Friday morning, I'd just finished doing 75 hours in 7 days, I'm f***ing knackered, unable to sleep and now I read this.
The Tories not happy they weren't able to play with the general publics lives with their 'herd immunity' bollocks have decided to play with NHS staff and patients lives instead. You couldn't f***ing make it up.

i sympathise and appreciate your efforts on behalf of everyone but if NHS frontline staff and everyone involved in Community Care are changing their PPE every 20 mins it would be a monumental task not only for the NHS and government but the manufacturing industry to keep them supplied.

I am sure they have experts who approve the use of PPE and they are assessing the risks and adjusting the PPE in response to this truly unprecedented situation.

A doctor on a phone-in recently said that far from downgrading the PPE in ITU it was in fact higher that WHO guidelines.
 
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