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OzzyMac said:
So if as others have said "we have the best squad in the league"...

1. Why do they fail?

2. Why are they afraid to fail?

3. Are there any factors other than the managers instructions which could lead to these failures?
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Firstly whilst we may have the best squad in the league (from a depth POV) I certainly don’t think we have the best team. We lack key ingredients such as pace and physical robustness and have real imbalance in certain positions (too many central attackers and central midfielders, not enough wingers and fullbacks). The formation we play doesn’t suit our players. We have immobile central midfielders so we double down and leave them outnumbered too. We’ve got a defensive mentality and the clear message to the team from the manager is to tighten up when objectively our defence is performing okay - and it’s our ability to create chances where our problems lie. If the fans can feel this lack of control in games then the players can too. They’ll be able to feel their lack of control and they’ll know that they’re only ever one lapse of concentration away from another 1-1 draw. Of course it’s not just the manager. It’s also the football side who brought these players in. I’m not sure we solve the issues we have as a club merely by replacing the manager. I am pretty much certain it won’t be solved by the fans though. This mythologising on the ‘certain type of player’ it takes to succeed at Safc and the inference that the fans should take some responsibility for performances is hogwash for me tbh.
 
rocky said:
I suppose I'm part of that brigade. I want him gone because there has been no improvement of performances or players for months. There is no discernable way of playing. I
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And i'm starting to feel the same.

That being said, a manager is only as good as the players he has before him and we have a slightly above average League 1 squad.

We can continue on the manager merry go round and each transfer window we'll be changing half the squad. Maybe he's hampered by the players we have, maybe the new owners are prepared to give him the funds he needs to build a team capable of competing in the championship next season.

One thing's for sure is that if he's sacked prematurely we'll never know.
 
OzzyMac said:
And i'm starting to feel the same.

That being said, a manager is only as good as the players he has before him and we have a slightly above average League 1 squad.

We can continue on the manager merry go round and each transfer window we'll be changing half the squad. Maybe he's hampered by the players we have, maybe the new owners are prepared to give him the funds he needs to build a team capable of competing in the championship next season.

One thing's for sure is that if he's sacked prematurely we'll never know.
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Not imo. I genuinely feel a better manager would have us more organised and play a style that will be distinguishable
 
The Cabbage said:
Firstly whilst we may have the best squad in the league (from a depth POV) I certainly don’t think we have the best team. We lack key ingredients such as pace and physical robustness and have real imbalance in certain positions (too many central attackers and central midfielders, not enough wingers and fullbacks). The formation we play doesn’t suit our players. We have immobile central midfielders so we double down and leave them outnumbered too. We’ve got a defensive mentality and the clear message to the team from the manager is to tighten up when objectively our defence is performing okay - and it’s our ability to create chances where our problems lie. If the fans can feel this lack of control in games then the players can too. They’ll be able to feel their lack of control and they’ll know that they’re only ever one lapse of concentration away from another 1-1 draw. Of course it’s not just the manager. It’s also the football side who brought these players in. I’m not sure we solve the issues we have as a club merely by replacing the manager. I am pretty much certain it won’t be solved by the fans though. This mythologising on the ‘certain type of player’ it takes to succeed at Safc and the inference that the fans should take some responsibility for performances is hogwash for me tbh.
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Good post overall but let's say you're a player and with 10 minutes to go when scores are level or you're 1 behind you see lots of fans leaving. Would you feel that the supporters have faith that you'll be able to turn things around or could it perhaps have a negative affect on your confidence.

Most of these players have come from playing in front of crowds 10k or less, i'm sure the collective groan for a misplaved pass from near on 30k could be quite disconcerting.
rocky said:
Not imo. I genuinely feel a better manager would have us more organised and play a style that will be distinguishable
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With the same players Rocky?

Just out of curiosity (for interests sake only) how would you set up the team?
 
OzzyMac said:
Good post overall but let's say you're a player and with 10 minutes to go when scores are level or you're 1 behind you see lots of fans leaving. Would you feel that the supporters have faith that you'll be able to turn things around or could it perhaps have a negative affect on your confidence.

Most of these players have come from playing in front of crowds 10k or less, i'm sure the collective groan for a misplaved pass from near on 30k could be quite disconcerting.

With the same players Rocky?

Just out of curiosity (for interests sake only) how would you set up the team?
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Yes with the same players.

I'd go 4-3-3
 
OzzyMac said:
Good post overall but let's say you're a player and with 10 minutes to go when scores are level or you're 1 behind you see lots of fans leaving. Would you feel that the supporters have faith that you'll be able to turn things around or could it perhaps have a negative affect on your confidence.

Most of these players have come from playing in front of crowds 10k or less, i'm sure the collective groan for a misplaved pass from near on 30k could be quite disconcerting.
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It doesn’t take much to take the crowd in the opposite direction either marra. We'll cheer pretty much anything. We cheer scraps. Imagine what we’d cheer if we saw something good. I just don’t agree that, in the hierarchy of reasons why we’re shit, the fans leaving early or having a moan comes anywhere near the top. If anything it doesn’t happen till the performance has well gone - and the players will see the lack of match control WELL before the crowd turns.
 
The Cabbage said:
It doesn’t take much to take the crowd in the opposite direction either marra. We'll cheer pretty much anything. We cheer scraps. Imagine what we’d cheer if we saw something good. I just don’t agree that, in the hierarchy of reasons why we’re shit, the fans leaving early or having a moan comes anywhere near the top. If anything it doesn’t happen till the performance has well gone - and the players will see the lack of match control WELL before the crowd turns.
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I agree with most of what you say but surely playing in front of 30k can be quite nerve wracking too. Then add the expectation of the fan base in general.

How many players have we signed over the years that have had good careers/records yet when they come here they struggle? There has to be a reason surely.
rocky said:
Yes with the same players.

I'd go 4-3-3
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I agree.

In a 4-3-3 formation though do we play with more attack minded midfielders and if so who would you put there? Is our defence good enough to facilitate an attacking philosopy or would it leave us exposed at the back?
Who would your forward 3 be?

Not having a go at all but there are so many questions and obviously varied opinions on how to best set up.
 
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OzzyMac said:
And i'm starting to feel the same.

That being said, a manager is only as good as the players he has before him and we have a slightly above average League 1 squad.

We can continue on the manager merry go round and each transfer window we'll be changing half the squad. Maybe he's hampered by the players we have, maybe the new owners are prepared to give him the funds he needs to build a team capable of competing in the championship next season.

One thing's for sure is that if he's sacked prematurely we'll never know.
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We went from an uplifting presence in Sam to a dour mood hoover Moyes and things quickly turned to shit on the pitch. He was quick to blame the fans and Ross is going the same way. Managers should take responsibility for the team instead of looking for scape goats for their own incompetence. Ross may get us promoted but I wouldn't put money on it.
 
We are way over reliant on one or two of our better players producing a moment of magic to win a game. The problem is If players like McGeady or Maguire are out of form we haven't got a plan B.
 
He's starting to bite at the press now, its getting to him. People are now thinking that the job is too much for him,
He's not helping himself with negative tactics, mad substitutions and crazy team selections. He will probably
look back on his time here in a few years and kick himself at the mistakes he made, or he'll be too busy celebrating
promotion from the Highland League.
 
california_surf said:
If you are happy being a mediocre league 1 team then do nothing and keep Ross in. If you want to be promoted and have a style of play that excites the fans you are somehow wrong.
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So who would you bring in (realistic targets) to inspire this style of play? Secondly, do we have the squad to do it?
 
The Cabbage said:
Firstly whilst we may have the best squad in the league (from a depth POV) I certainly don’t think we have the best team. We lack key ingredients such as pace and physical robustness and have real imbalance in certain positions (too many central attackers and central midfielders, not enough wingers and fullbacks). The formation we play doesn’t suit our players. We have immobile central midfielders so we double down and leave them outnumbered too. We’ve got a defensive mentality and the clear message to the team from the manager is to tighten up when objectively our defence is performing okay - and it’s our ability to create chances where our problems lie. If the fans can feel this lack of control in games then the players can too. They’ll be able to feel their lack of control and they’ll know that they’re only ever one lapse of concentration away from another 1-1 draw. Of course it’s not just the manager. It’s also the football side who brought these players in. I’m not sure we solve the issues we have as a club merely by replacing the manager. I am pretty much certain it won’t be solved by the fans though. This mythologising on the ‘certain type of player’ it takes to succeed at Safc and the inference that the fans should take some responsibility for performances is hogwash for me tbh.
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Agree with most of that. But feel your very wrong on the certain type of player bit. If you think that a player does not need a stronger mentality to play for Sunderland as opposed to say Accrington Iam amazed.
The expectations are far higher, the pressures to deliver greater and therefore the fear of failure more likely to undermine performance. That is in no way the fans ‘fault’ it’s just the way it is. Fans have always been the biggest part of this club, it’s the rest of the club that needs to catch up.
Problem is we have premiership fans and league 1 mentality players and patience is wearing thin.
california_surf said:
If you are happy being a mediocre league 1 team then do nothing and keep Ross in. If you want to be promoted and have a style of play that excites the fans you are somehow wrong.
Click to expand...

I’ll say again you will never see exciting football until the players find the confidence to express themselves freely
 
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