Positives

Smiler said:
Have your rest their comments because they don't match up. Had a habit of going on long good runs and then very shit ones. Had a habit of changing tactics mid-game and players don't have a clue what they are doing. Had favourite players that are undroppable no matter how bad they are playing, good runs usually come about because his favourite players are injured/unavailable and he had to change the team, laughs in interviews when in the middle of losing 8 games in a row and getting knocked out of cup games to non-league teams. Has never finished in the top 6 and no matter how you dress that up it's shite.
The amount of f***ing shit points far outweigh his good.
I'll say it again, good managers start their careers really well, they don't take over 7 years to have a team reach into the playoffs, in fact they have had a promotion or two by then no matter what club they were in charge of
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I have explained to you that he started it well. You have a very simplistic idea that a manager must have won a promotion in his first job, irrespective of the resources and expectations of the club in the question. It defies sense and logic that if a manager took over Wigan tomorrow in his early 30s and led them to 7th by the end of the season, he'd have done anything other than a stellar job because he hadn't reached a play-off or won a promotion.
 


The Beautiful Game said:
If you’re able to fool yourself like that then I’m jealous. That sounds sarcastic but I’m being genuine.

No one wants to be disappointed, angry or miserable despite what people say on here. Fact is in the modern era we know far, far more about managers and players than we used to. We’ve got social media, myriad of stats websites to learn what we don’t know as well. There’s years of data to judge these appointments and we keep making bad decisions. It’s impossible for me to look at all that and still be positive and I’m genuinely trying to be.

If this comes off it will be a massive shock. We’ll get people coming on and telling people like me they were right all along and I’ll have to take my medicine. If it does I’ll gladly take it. But it would be one of the first times I’ve had to. To be successful here Johnson needs to pretty much double his win percentage that he’s managed at every club he’s been at. If he does then it’s 1 in a 100 and whoever made the appointment is either a visionary or incredibly lucky. There’s nothing he’s done to suggest he’s got what it takes.

I did first time round actually. But when you put him alongside the other candidates he’s streets ahead. One of those was in the premier league where the vast majority of managers will have win rates between 30 and 40% for starters. He’s also actually improved other clubs and gotten promotion from this league and the championship (I think I’m right in saying).

Johnson’s best achievement is finishing in the top half. At least cook and the cowleys et al have a history of improving teams. They’ve done something that justifies another team looking at them.
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“Johnson’s best achievement is improving a team”. “At least cook and the cowleys et al have a history of improving teams”. Hmm.

We’ve got to be careful about win percentage for a manager. Personally I think it’s a bit of a bollocks stat in all honesty. Totally devoid of context. I was wholly against Parkinson but that was nothing to do with his win percentage. It was his coaching style and outlook on football that concerned me. The question we need to be asking is ‘what are the criteria on which Johnson came top’. If it’s drive to bring through youth, tactical flexibility, attacking intent, coaching ability you can see why he’d score well.

I’m not sold on Johnson but if he is the best that a league one safc with a sporting director can do then so be it. Any MANAGER we appoint would be gone within 18 months. I’m sure that’ll be the same for a head coach. The key appointment is the sporting director and he seems to have his head screwed on. That’s enough for me to give Johnson a chance.
 
The Cabbage said:
“Johnson’s best achievement is improving a team”. “At least cook and the cowleys et al have a history of improving teams”. Hmm.

We’ve got to be careful about win percentage for a manager. Personally I think it’s a bit of a bollocks stat in all honesty. Totally devoid of context. I was wholly against Parkinson but that was nothing to do with his win percentage. It was his coaching style and outlook on football that concerned me. The question we need to be asking is ‘what are the criteria on which Johnson came top’. If it’s drive to bring through youth, tactical flexibility, attacking intent, coaching ability you can see why he’d score well.

I’m not sold on Johnson but if he is the best that a league one safc with a sporting director can do then so be it. Any MANAGER we appoint would be gone within 18 months. I’m sure that’ll be the same for a head coach. The key appointment is the sporting director and he seems to have his head screwed on. That’s enough for me to give Johnson a chance.
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Johnson hasn’t really improved teams though has he. A few league places in year then back down a few the next sure but not got them up a level. At best you’d say he didn’t take them backwards
 
The Cabbage said:
“Johnson’s best achievement is improving a team”. “At least cook and the cowleys et al have a history of improving teams”. Hmm.

We’ve got to be careful about win percentage for a manager. Personally I think it’s a bit of a bollocks stat in all honesty. Totally devoid of context. I was wholly against Parkinson but that was nothing to do with his win percentage. It was his coaching style and outlook on football that concerned me. The question we need to be asking is ‘what are the criteria on which Johnson came top’. If it’s drive to bring through youth, tactical flexibility, attacking intent, coaching ability you can see why he’d score well.

I’m not sold on Johnson but if he is the best that a league one safc with a sporting director can do then so be it. Any MANAGER we appoint would be gone within 18 months. I’m sure that’ll be the same for a head coach. The key appointment is the sporting director and he seems to have his head screwed on. That’s enough for me to give Johnson a chance.
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That's one of the most sensible posts I've read on here over the last few days.
 
Summerbee said:
I have explained to you that he started it well. You have a very simplistic idea that a manager must have won a promotion in his first job, irrespective of the resources and expectations of the club in the question. It defies sense and logic that if a manager took over Wigan tomorrow in his early 30s and led them to 7th by the end of the season, he'd have done anything other than a stellar job because he hadn't reached a play-off or won a promotion.
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You're right he got to 9th :lol:
 
dave hedgehog said:
Its quite odd that after years of misdirection from our club owner(s) we find our soon to be new owner putting together a proper club structure that is a huge shift from what we are familiar with yet people choose to find negativity in it. Harsh reality - the normal bread and butter approach hasnt worked here for years. Its time for change!!
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Yes I agree but appointing people who seem to have peaked at utter mediocrity isn’t going to change nowt like
 
I must be practically alone in thinking Johnson is a good appointment. He’s young, plays decent attacking football and has done alright in his previous jobs. Cowley seems to be the name most are clamouring for but his stint at Huddersfield was poor.
 
The positive thing is he's a step up from Parkinson, and I'd imagine he'll change the whole negative system under PP, he'll also get some real support from our new DOF which can only be a massive plus point..
 
The Beautiful Game said:
Johnson’s best achievement is finishing in the top half. At least cook and the cowleys et al have a history of improving teams. They’ve done something that justifies another team looking at them.
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Bristol City were 18th the season before Johnson took charge. In his first 3 seasons they finished 17th (they were 22nd when he took over), 11th then 8th. I’d say that’s improvement.

Something clearly went wrong last season though, but even then he left them 12th - it’s not like he’d dragged them back into the relegation places he’d just gone on a stretch of bad form again (which is my main concern about him btw)
 
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The Beautiful Game said:
Johnson hasn’t really improved teams though has he. A few league places in year then back down a few the next sure but not got them up a level. At best you’d say he didn’t take them backwards
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He took over Bristol City in the relegation zone and stabilised them as a mid-table play-off flirter. He did the same with Oldham. Barnsley is the more marginal one where he took them from lower-mid to upper-mid but it seems he laid foundations for what followed. To say ‘at best he didn’t take them backwards‘ is a jaundiced view that isn’t really backed up by reality. There may not be promotions but there’s clear improvement in every one.
 
I like the theory of speakman and his role what for makes me nervous is his first appointment is somebody nobody wanted or rates and has achieved the grand total of nowt in his career.
For weeks we’ve been saying the first appointment will show the ambition and here we have it.
A lot of posters are going out of their way to convince themselves it’s a great call, those sticking to original call are getting pelters.
 
Summerbee said:
You stated he hadn't improved teams. I provided facts. What's your requirement for improving teams? 14 places higher? 15? 33?
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Taking them up a level. Fluctuating a few positions in the same league where margins can be a few points says nowt to me. Bruce’s 10th place finish looks class cos we won the last game. Had results gone differently it could have been 15th for example.

That’s my last post on the subject as this is a thread for positives and I shouldn’t be hijacking it. At the end of the day my unhappiness with this appointment means nowt and will have no bearing on how he does. We can circle back in 18 months and you can all berate me to fuck if he does well here.
 
DoctorMick said:
Promotion, that’s the only criteria people seem to have.
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It's so odd. People seem to think taking a team from 1st to 6th and a play-off final win is a better job than taking a team from 24th into the top half, all because one has a promotion on their CV and the other doesn't.
 
The Cabbage said:
He took over Bristol City in the relegation zone and stabilised them as a mid-table play-off flirter. He did the same with Oldham. Barnsley is the more marginal one where he took them from lower-mid to upper-mid but it seems he laid foundations for what followed. To say ‘at best he didn’t take them backwards‘ is a jaundiced view that isn’t really backed up by reality. There may not be promotions but there’s clear improvement in every one.
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Not falling out with you cos we agree on pretty much everything else. I’ve said my bit. Hopefully I’m wrong and you’re right.
 

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