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PIetersen return?

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johnson said:
Trott
Cook
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes
Ali
Buttler
Anderson
Broad

Another seamer, fuck knows who. Plunkett maybe.
Click to expand...

Sommat like this...

Test:

Cook
Lees/Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes/Woakes
Ali
Buttler
Plunkett/Finn
Broad
Anderson

ODI:

Ali
Roy/Hales
Bell
Taylor
Root
Stokes
Morgan
Buttler
Woakes
Broad/Finn
Anderson

Would love to see Trott make a comeback but not sure it will happen tbh.
 

smoker said:
Sommat like this...

Test:

Cook
Lees/Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes/Woakes
Ali
Buttler
Plunkett/Finn
Broad
Anderson

ODI:

Ali
Roy/Hales
Bell
Taylor
Root
Stokes
Morgan
Buttler
Woakes
Broad/Finn
Anderson

Would love to see Trott make a comeback but not sure it will happen tbh.
Click to expand...

I think Trott is nailed on for the Windies IMO, although will wait and see

Not much argument with the rest of it really, my main concern is pace bowling. Apart from Jimmy and Broad we have very very little from what I can see. Finn isn't bowling at any sort of pace, we really need to find someone! I don't rate Woakes and Jordan personally, Stokes is a canny fourth seamer, we need to find someone who can constantly bowl 90mph. Easier said than done.

We have 2 genuine quality all rounder in Ali and Stokes, which we need to make the most of.
 
People should say whether they're talking about the Test team or ODI or T20 - h/t smoker - it matters. KP has a long standing knee injury and I'd say there would be some doubt of it standing up to a series of 5 tests.

I'm not that sure about whether KP is liked in the dressing room or not, I do know that in the ODI team at least there has been a big change in personnel, maybe the difficult relationships won't be there but in any case who case. If it's a complete love-in I'd be more worries than not.

I reckon KP's relationship with Flower and Moores are at the heart of the problems. At the end of the 2013 Ashes series Flower put a gun to KP's head and pulled the trigger - that wasn't business it was personal in my view. The management, even the new management decided to back up their man.

Whatever the chat, KP will not return while Moores is there, but of course after the 'glorious successes' of the past year Moores will probably be toast.
 
smoker said:
Sommat like this...

Test:

Cook
Lees/Lyth
Ballance
Bell
Root
Stokes/Woakes
Ali
Buttler
Plunkett/Finn
Broad
Anderson

ODI:

Ali
Roy/Hales
Bell
Taylor
Root
Stokes
Morgan
Buttler
Woakes
Broad/Finn
Anderson

Would love to see Trott make a comeback but not sure it will happen tbh.
Click to expand...
I guarantee only in England would Gary Ballance be playing instead of KP.
We are an absolute laughing stock at present.
 
Mrjardine said:
Carberry and Lumb have done nothing on the international scene though.
KP is England's all time leading run scorer man and the series in which he apparently reached his nadir he was our leading run scorer in that as well!
Bringing him back won't transform us from also rans to world beaters but he is still more than good enough to command a spot in all formats.
I've said it before on here about Shane warne who didn't get on with the establishment and openly slated John Buchanan yet still got picked as the Aussies don't cut off their nose to spite their face!
Our top brass are and always have been terrified of anyone who doesn't toe the party line.
Click to expand...

Warne may not have got on with the coach at the time ,but got on with his team mates and above all was a team player,never in a million years would he have sent texts to the opposing team slating a Aussie captain,so don't see that as a comparison to Pietersen in anyway.
 
Voice of fair play said:
Warne may not have got on with the coach at the time ,but got on with his team mates and above all was a team player,never in a million years would he have sent texts to the opposing team slating a Aussie captain,so don't see that as a comparison to Pietersen in anyway.
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Warne and ponting never saw eye to eye mind. This has been well documented.
Coming out publicly claiming the coach (Buchanan) may as well just drive the team bus isn't exactly a sign of a team man either.
The text thing wasn't great but I've captained sides (granted on a much smaller scale) and I wouldn't be surprised in slightest if lads had said things about me that weren't exactly complimentary. Provided they done a job for me during a game I couldnt care less to be honest. Not every boss will be popular in his place of work.
It's typical English establishment to banish perceived troublesome figures.
Botham fell foul numerous times as did Gower and flintoff. We just don't deal with mavericks or to use Aussie parlance larrikans in the same way other nations do.
The people who suffer are the fans as I guarantee vast majority would rather see KP trotting out to bat in the ashes than a Gary Ballance much as in years gone by they'd have preferred a botham than a Derek Pringle or Gower to a mark lathwell.
Only way this could have washed was if we unearthed some gem to replace him. Sorry to say this just hasn't happened.
 
Mrjardine said:
It's typical English establishment to banish perceived troublesome figures.
Botham fell foul numerous times as did Gower and flintoff. We just don't deal with mavericks or to use Aussie parlance larrikans in the same way other nations do.
The people who suffer are the fans as I guarantee vast majority would rather see KP trotting out to bat in the ashes than a Gary Ballance much as in years gone by they'd have preferred a botham than a Derek Pringle or Gower to a mark lathwell.
Only way this could have washed was if we unearthed some gem to replace him. Sorry to say this just hasn't happened.
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Always amuses me when people trot out that line. Botham, Gower and Pietersen all in the top 10 all-time appearances (and so would Flintoff if he wasn't a fat waster), and they have all captained England. Pietersen would be back in the team by now if he was still playing competitive cricket (and if he was anywhere near fit), despite the fact that he betrayed his team pretty much as badly as anyone I can remember.

So apart from picking them pretty much whenever they've been available, and giving them the top job of captain, we just don't deal with our mavericks very well at all......
 
Mrjardine said:
I guarantee only in England would Gary Ballance be playing instead of KP.
We are an absolute laughing stock at present.
Click to expand...

Averages 61 in test cricket.
2014 emerging cricketer of the year

If you are referring to ODI, read my post again.
 
Mrjardine said:
I guarantee only in England would Gary Ballance be playing instead of KP.
We are an absolute laughing stock at present.
Click to expand...

That is absolute shite mate,

Gary Ballance would walk into Australia's test team

Look at his record already. How are the likes of Shaun Marsh, Joe Burns any better??
 
Steak Pie said:
Always amuses me when people trot out that line. Botham, Gower and Pietersen all in the top 10 all-time appearances (and so would Flintoff if he wasn't a fat waster), and they have all captained England. Pietersen would be back in the team by now if he was still playing competitive cricket (and if he was anywhere near fit), despite the fact that he betrayed his team pretty much as badly as anyone I can remember.

So apart from picking them pretty much whenever they've been available, and giving them the top job of captain, we just don't deal with our mavericks very well at all......
Click to expand...
Picking them whenever available? Seriously?
Gower never played for 18 month for having audacity to fly a plane over one of our practice games! :lol:
Botham got fit for a West Indies tour having done well for Worcester after back operation and got left out because 'we were heading in a new direction'. Sound familiar?
At end of the day these players played all those games because they were top top quality and should have played more only for the bigwigs to decide otherwise. What was this based on as it certainly wasn't ability.
As for KP like I said he called his captain in a text. Big deal. It didn't stop him doing his job and as I've said before if I was captain that's all that matters.

johnson said:
That is absolute shite mate,

Gary Ballance would walk into Australia's test team

Look at his record already. How are the likes of Shaun Marsh, Joe Burns any better??
Click to expand...
I'm not suggesting he isn't a good player or that he may not get a cap or two for the Aussies but a fit pieterson or fit ballance who would they go for?
I think we both know answer to that one.

smoker said:
Averages 61 in test cricket.
2014 emerging cricketer of the year

If you are referring to ODI, read my post again.
Click to expand...
I see you and Johnson love this emerging cricketer of year award mind!
Have a look at the 2011 winner to see that it's no great yardstick for success!
I'm not saying he isn't a good player or that he won't go on to have a good career but I repeat only in England would a straight shoutout between ballance and KP result in Ballance being the victor.
That to me speaks volumes.
 
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Mrjardine said:
Picking them whenever available? Seriously?
Gower never played for 18 month for having audacity to fly a plane over one of our practice games! :lol:
Botham got fit for a West Indies tour having done well for Worcester after back operation and got left out because 'we were heading in a new direction'. Sound familiar?
At end of the day these players played all those games because they were top top quality and should have played more only for the bigwigs to decide otherwise. What was this based on as it certainly wasn't ability.
As for KP like I said he called his captain in a text. Big deal. It didn't stop him doing his job and as I've said before if I was captain that's all that matters.
Click to expand...

Nope. Gower played all of that 91 tour of Australia, and then all the next summer before being left of of the next winter tour, when he retired, aged 36. He also refused to go to the World Cup, but was recalled to the Test squad straight after.

Botham, remember, was found stoned off his box and was only given a 2 month suspension. And if you're talking about Gooch's 1990 Windies tour, you need to check your facts. Botham was finished and had barely played since he broke down v Australia a couple of months before. Even then he was recalled the next summer when he was fit, even though he was far too fat.

Pietersen recalled after betraying his team. Flintoff recalled countless times, even when clearly overweight. We bend over backwards for our talented players, always have done, always will do.
 
Mrjardine said:
Picking them whenever available? Seriously?
Gower never played for 18 month for having audacity to fly a plane over one of our practice games! :lol:
Botham got fit for a West Indies tour having done well for Worcester after back operation and got left out because 'we were heading in a new direction'. Sound familiar?
At end of the day these players played all those games because they were top top quality and should have played more only for the bigwigs to decide otherwise. What was this based on as it certainly wasn't ability.
As for KP like I said he called his captain in a text. Big deal. It didn't stop him doing his job and as I've said before if I was captain that's all that matters.


I'm not suggesting he isn't a good player or that he may not get a cap or two for the Aussies but a fit pieterson or fit ballance who would they go for?
I think we both know answer to that one.
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Australia dropped four players because they didn't do their homework. They played Shane Watson as an opener and Philip Hughes at #4 in the same innings. They picked Usman Khawajah over Bailey, Burns and Finch. They routinely pick Mitchell Marsh over Maxwell and Faulkner.
 
Steak Pie said:
Nope. Gower played all of that 91 tour of Australia, and then all the next summer before being left of of the next winter tour, when he retired, aged 36. He also refused to go to the World Cup, but was recalled to the Test squad straight after.

Botham, remember, was found stoned off his box and was only given a 2 month suspension. And if you're talking about Gooch's 1990 Windies tour, you need to check your facts. Botham was finished and had barely played since he broke down v Australia a couple of months before. Even then he was recalled the next summer when he was fit, even though he was far too fat.

Pietersen recalled after betraying his team. Flintoff recalled countless times, even when clearly overweight. We bend over backwards for our talented players, always have done, always will do.
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Gower played the last two tests of 90-91 tour then never played again for 17 month so you are completely wrong mind.
If you read bothams autobiography he says he got fit and was given assurances he'd be selected which didn't happen due to 'heading in a new direction'. I do agree botham was way past his best but still surely a better bet than David capel!
Pieterson was banished for spell after textgate and had to go through a ridiculous and very public 'reintegration' process.

smoker said:
Australia dropped four players because they didn't do their homework. They played Shane Watson as an opener and Philip Hughes at #4 in the same innings. They picked Usman Khawajah over Bailey, Burns and Finch. They routinely pick Mitchell Marsh over Maxwell and Faulkner.
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And that served them well didn't it!
Get a proper cricket man in like lehmann and see how they've prospered.
 
Tell him he's available as long as he's committed to making runs domestically first off which would mean no IPL. You'd sharp see him stuttering then cos I honestly believe he ain't bothered about coming back at all and is stretching out the whole saga to further his media profile. I may be a million mile wrong but put the ball in his court and make it clear he'll be picked on performances only and I think we'd soon see him backtracking and coming out with excuses like they couldn't come to an agreement and attempting to pass the buck on to anyone but himself.

I personally wouldn't have him back, for me the whole textgate malarkey made his position in the dressing room untenable anyway and believe he should have went then as he showed utter contempt for the captain and his team mates. I always thought what goes on in the dressing room stays in the dressing room and if that aint the case while you're still a part of it then you're on a shaky nail, especially if you're sailing solo and he knew that only too well. If it had been his first mistake then you could say he'd been at best naive but it wasn't and he was still given a reprieve. He's had plenty of chances and it's only his ability that had allowed that.

It boils my waz the amount of times I pick a paper up or look at the news online to see his mug is on there for nothing more than what he's said this time.

We've mentioned D'Olivera's book in another thread, he wants to try reading it cos he was a real hero and inspiration.
 
He doesn't want to play Test matches because it would mean he would have to play County Championship cricket, and no one will pay him the money that he wants

He has retired from ODIs once before

He would happily play T20 for England, it would get him more money in the IPL if he did

He likes the attention. And despite being such a brilliant batsman, he won't play for England again IMO
 
Mrjardine said:
Gower played the last two tests of 90-91 tour then never played again for 17 month so you are completely wrong mind.
If you read bothams autobiography he says he got fit and was given assurances he'd be selected which didn't happen due to 'heading in a new direction'. I do agree botham was way past his best but still surely a better bet than David capel!
Pieterson was banished for spell after textgate and had to go through a ridiculous and very public 'reintegration' process.


And that served them well didn't it!
Get a proper cricket man in like lehmann and see how they've prospered.
Click to expand...

A lot of that was under Lehmann.

Anyhow, glad you agree its about having the right coach, not some intrinsic cultural superiority.
 
smoker said:
A lot of that was under Lehmann.

Anyhow, glad you agree its about having the right coach, not some intrinsic cultural superiority.
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Homeworkgate was under Mickey Arthur. I'm not sure of the relevance regarding the rest of your earlier point.
Do I think KP would still be playing if we had a coach with balls like Lehmann? Yes!
 
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