Parky in or out


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If we win our game in hand, we'll be one point off the top, having beaten the top two and, in my opinion, very unlucky not to have beaten two of three other teams in the play-off berths too (albeit one was in the league cup).

Also - hate to break this to people - we are also top of the 2020 calendar league table (though, in a reversal of the current one, Peterborough and Portsmouth could get ahead of us with games in hand) League One - Annual table

The point is this: anyone who looks at data, rather than the pitch - which is to say most chairmen and certainly the sort we should want - is not going to fire Parkinson. Not even close. It's an insanely high risk move against someone who, statistically speaking, has a very high probability of winning promotion. Our curve is upwards according to just about every piece of data you could collect.

I mean, I agree it's terrible football. But: not going to happen, new owner or not.

If he drops off - sure.

This board's collective mental health would be a lot better if we quit whining about this - it's not going to happen.
 
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Apart from the one thing that actually matters tbf (league position). He's never had us as high as Ross did once or twice has he? Only saying that to provide much-needed context. I thought Ross was poor - probably worse than Parky. However, despite this season's league one being the worst lowest quality we've had to endure (IMO) Parky hasn't managed to get us in the promotion spots yet - despite his ppg rate. Basically, concerns are perfectly fair. He is yet to convince. Wouldn't do anything yet, though, for sure.

Don't really think position matters too much at this point, or at least compared to points per game. Obviously if we were bottom it would matter. Even if we win and outdo Hull's result on Saturday to go second that doesn't change. Just keep plugging away at the points target and we'll outlast the others.

I could be wrong but I'm sure we were 3rd/4th for 90% of the season under Ross, finally went second with about 6 games left and then imploded from there and ended up 5th. Despite the ridiculous amount of 1-1 draws through the season and never really being in the top two until March, we were looking good for promotion until he fucked it right at the end.
 
If we win our game in hand, we'll be one point off the top, having beaten the top two and, in my opinion, very unlucky not to have beaten two of three other teams in the play-off berths too (albeit one was in the league cup).

Also - hate to break this to people - we are also top of the 2020 calendar league table (though, in a reversal of the current one, Peterborough and Portsmouth could get ahead of us with games in hand) League One - Annual table

The point is this: anyone who looks at data, rather than the pitch - which is to say most chairmen and certainly the sort we should want - is not going to fire Parkinson. Not even close. It's an insanely high risk move against someone who, statistically speaking, has a very high probability of winning promotion. Our curve is upwards according to just about every piece of data you could collect.

I mean, I agree it's terrible football. But: not going to happen, new owner or not.

If he drops off - sure.

This board's collective mental health would be a lot better if we quit whining about this - it's not going to happen.

That's exactly how it is.
 
OUT! The right choice of manager could re-invigorate us, but......

- Getting rid right now would mean having to find a manager willing to take us on, knowing that the purse strings are virtually closed and he may well find himself out on his ear again in a matter of days/weeks/months due to new owners wanting a change.

I think PP is a very poor manager, and even if he does get us promoted, the Championship is way beyond his ability, and cruel though it may sound, he'd have to go as soon as the last ball was kicked. But because of the above, if we were to pull the trigger now, who would you get to replace him? As it is, his points per game is good, but I don't see it lasting, our only hope is that as the season progresses we benefit when injury and exhaustion takes its toll other teams with smaller squads. So, reluctantly, I have to say IN (for the moment!)

Anyway, he's not going to get fired by the present regime, and I'm not convinced by the takeover talk, I suspect it will be a bit of deckchair shuffling at best. So I guess we'd best get used to him.
 
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I think ignoring performances, especially when the weaknesses are this obvious and persistent, is a recipe for disaster.

one injury to Wright and we are fucked. His entire plan is based on him playing and keeping clean sheets. When he got injured last season it all fell apart.

his initial record here was awful, he’s figured out a way to get narrow wins and has had a boat load of luck. It’s a matter of time before we slump again IMO.

he won’t be sacked but that’s a mistake long term.
The analysis from non biased people does not back up your opinion- we are creating plenty of chances, it's not all based on clean sheets.

I agree it's not very pretty but it's not true to say it's all based on defence
Apart from the one thing that actually matters tbf (league position). He's never had us as high as Ross did once or twice has he? Only saying that to provide much-needed context. I thought Ross was poor - probably worse than Parky. However, despite this season's league one being the worst lowest quality we've had to endure (IMO) Parky hasn't managed to get us in the promotion spots yet - despite his ppg rate. Basically, concerns are perfectly fair. He is yet to convince. Wouldn't do anything yet, though, for sure.
True, but Ross also had Oviedo, Cattermole and Maja to help. And if Parkinson keeps up the average PPG we will finish top two let alone get there ever
 
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If we win our game in hand, we'll be one point off the top, having beaten the top two and, in my opinion, very unlucky not to have beaten two of three other teams in the play-off berths too (albeit one was in the league cup).

Also - hate to break this to people - we are also top of the 2020 calendar league table (though, in a reversal of the current one, Peterborough and Portsmouth could get ahead of us with games in hand) League One - Annual table

The point is this: anyone who looks at data, rather than the pitch - which is to say most chairmen and certainly the sort we should want - is not going to fire Parkinson. Not even close. It's an insanely high risk move against someone who, statistically speaking, has a very high probability of winning promotion. Our curve is upwards according to just about every piece of data you could collect.

I mean, I agree it's terrible football. But: not going to happen, new owner or not.

If he drops off - sure.

This board's collective mental health would be a lot better if we quit whining about this - it's not going to happen.
My mental health would be a lot better if I hadn’t read this post .
 
If we win our game in hand, we'll be one point off the top, having beaten the top two and, in my opinion, very unlucky not to have beaten two of three other teams in the play-off berths too (albeit one was in the league cup).

Also - hate to break this to people - we are also top of the 2020 calendar league table (though, in a reversal of the current one, Peterborough and Portsmouth could get ahead of us with games in hand) League One - Annual table

The point is this: anyone who looks at data, rather than the pitch - which is to say most chairmen and certainly the sort we should want - is not going to fire Parkinson. Not even close. It's an insanely high risk move against someone who, statistically speaking, has a very high probability of winning promotion. Our curve is upwards according to just about every piece of data you could collect.

I mean, I agree it's terrible football. But: not going to happen, new owner or not.

If he drops off - sure.

This board's collective mental health would be a lot better if we quit whining about this - it's not going to happen.
Excellent post. Genuinely astounds me how many on here are ignoring facts and happy to take a gamble on someone else in the midst of a promotion battle we are doing well in. It's absolutely bizarre. I can understand people not liking the football style but surely we just want to get promoted and worry about style and staying up in July.
OUT! The right choice of manager could re-invigorate us, but......

- Getting rid right now would mean having to find a manager willing to take us on, knowing that the purse strings are virtually closed and he may well find himself out on his ear again in a matter of days/weeks/months due to new owners wanting a change.

I think PP is a very poor manager, and even if he does get us promoted, the Championship is way beyond his ability, and cruel though it may sound, he'd have to go as soon as the last ball was kicked. But because of the above, if we were to pull the trigger now, who would you get to replace him? As it is, his points per game is good, but I don't see it lasting, our only hope is that as the season progresses we benefit when injury and exhaustion takes its toll other teams with smaller squads. So, reluctantly, I have to say IN (for the moment!)

Anyway, he's not going to get fired by the present regime, and I'm not convinced by the takeover talk, I suspect it will be a bit of deckchair shuffling at best. So I guess we'd best get used to him.
It wouldn't just be a manager knowing the purse strings are tight, it would be a manager knowing we sacked someone for being on course to get promoted. Would be an absolutely insane decision to make that would damage our reputation as a club.
 
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Out

I totally understand the cold logic of retaining him, and we are relatively well placed this season so if you were outward looking in you can understand people questioning this. I also disagree with some personal attacks on him, i do think he's doing his best. But football is as much about passion as it is about logic, and Parky has the fan base split.

Passionately - His football is awful and uninspiring. It is truly, very, very hard to get excited about watching us. This is one of the main reasons people didn't want him. SAFC means a lot to many in the region and we want to be proud of our team, we want people to talk about us in good terms. This will never happen under Parkinson. There is no "Sunderland Way", but we should never be known for attritional, percentages based hoofball.

Logically - I actually think the argument is stronger. Keeping him with this style of play and his preferred player type will lead to nothing but strife next year. I can't see past anything other than relegation after which point we have to start again. This could be more harmful in the long run. Its fantasy to suggest with more money he could build a better team. He's been in management for 17 years and he has never ever succeeded in the top two divisions. He's a specialist at getting mediocre teams promoted, and that's what he's turning us into because its all he knows. The reality is we need start building for a Championship promotion campaign now. Other than the potential of Hume, there is not one player, yet, who has staked a claim to be at the core of a Championship winning/promotion to the PL team.

The way i see it is we're at the black jack table and we've been dealt two 7's. There's a chance we could win with 14, but it would require every one else to mess up and bust. I think we twist.
 
Out

I totally understand the cold logic of retaining him, and we are relatively well placed this season so if you were outward looking in you can understand people questioning this. I also disagree with some personal attacks on him, i do think he's doing his best. But football is as much about passion as it is about logic, and Parky has the fan base split.

Passionately - His football is awful and uninspiring. It is truly, very, very hard to get excited about watching us. This is one of the main reasons people didn't want him. SAFC means a lot to many in the region and we want to be proud of our team, we want people to talk about us in good terms. This will never happen under Parkinson. There is no "Sunderland Way", but we should never be known for attritional, percentages based hoofball.

Logically - I actually think the argument is stronger. Keeping him with this style of play and his preferred player type will lead to nothing but strife next year. I can't see past anything other than relegation after which point we have to start again. This could be more harmful in the long run. Its fantasy to suggest with more money he could build a better team. He's been in management for 17 years and he has never ever succeeded in the top two divisions. He's a specialist at getting mediocre teams promoted, and that's what he's turning us into because its all he knows. The reality is we need start building for a Championship promotion campaign now. Other than the potential of Hume, there is not one player, yet, who has staked a claim to be at the core of a Championship winning/promotion to the PL team.

The way i see it is we're at the black jack table and we've been dealt two 7's. There's a chance we could win with 14, but it would require every one else to mess up and bust. I think we twist.
Absolutely the best post Ive read this calendar year on here.
Spot on fella.
 
The analysis from non biased people does not back up your opinion- we are creating plenty of chances, it's not all based on clean sheets.

I agree it's not very pretty but it's not true to say it's all based on defence

think some posters rely too much on XG instead of seeing it as one particular tool to gauge progress/success.

for example we get a high XG rating for pens, and we’ve had quite a few of those, which have also been the margin between getting points and not.

if the pens dry up, we are far less likely to win. If we lose Wright we are far less likely to win.

I agree data is important, but so is what you can see with your own eyes.
 
think some posters rely too much on XG instead of seeing it as one particular tool to gauge progress/success.

for example we get a high XG rating for pens, and we’ve had quite a few of those, which have also been the margin between getting points and not.

if the pens dry up, we are far less likely to win. If we lose Wright we are far less likely to win.

I agree data is important, but so is what you can see with your own eyes.
Yes, it's not the be all and end all. On penalties, we have conceeded quite a few too but still have the best xG against so it works both ways.

Could say the same for key players at any side. If Peterborough lose Dembele, if Fleetwood lose Madden, if Portsmouth lose Marquis, if Ipswich lose Edwards.

We have better strength in depth than most I think.

I see with my own eyes that we are functional and usually deserve to win. I think many are blinded by them not liking the style.
 
The analysis from non biased people does not back up your opinion- we are creating plenty of chances, it's not all based on clean sheets.

I agree it's not very pretty but it's not true to say it's all based on defence

True, but Ross also had Oviedo, Cattermole and Maja to help. And if Parkinson keeps up the average PPG we will finish top two let alone get there ever
We should do. However until we ARE top two, people will rightly be nervous. Our overall performances feel like they’re teetering on a precipice far more than trending upwards. Fair point about Ross’ squad, though. He was a poor manager.
 
Yes, it's not the be all and end all. On penalties, we have conceeded quite a few too but still have the best xG against so it works both ways.

Could say the same for key players at any side. If Peterborough lose Dembele, if Fleetwood lose Madden, if Portsmouth lose Marquis, if Ipswich lose Edwards.

We have better strength in depth than most I think.

I see with my own eyes that we are functional and usually deserve to win. I think many are blinded by them not liking the style.
Nail on the head there mate its a long season and strength in depth will be vital.I think we have that .Most div 1 players are average at best but we have more of them,and will tell in the end
 
Absolutely the best post Ive read this calendar year on here.
Spot on fella.

Why did you agree with him? He put forward some good points. He wasn't dead angry and didn't call the manager lots of nasty names?

Its the ONLY argument i've heard from hundreds of posts from anyone who wants him out that has been rational and well thought through even if I dont agree with him as things stand today.
 
Why did you agree with him? He put forward some good points. He wasn't dead angry and didn't call the manager lots of nasty names?

Its the ONLY argument i've heard from hundreds of posts from anyone who wants him out that has been rational and well thought through even if I dont agree with him as things stand today.
That’s why I told him it was a top post . He articulated very well all the negatives on parky. It was a realistic intelligent post , whereas mine are short and sweet and full of anger and swear words.
 
Out

I totally understand the cold logic of retaining him, and we are relatively well placed this season so if you were outward looking in you can understand people questioning this. I also disagree with some personal attacks on him, i do think he's doing his best. But football is as much about passion as it is about logic, and Parky has the fan base split.

Passionately - His football is awful and uninspiring. It is truly, very, very hard to get excited about watching us. This is one of the main reasons people didn't want him. SAFC means a lot to many in the region and we want to be proud of our team, we want people to talk about us in good terms. This will never happen under Parkinson. There is no "Sunderland Way", but we should never be known for attritional, percentages based hoofball.

Logically - I actually think the argument is stronger. Keeping him with this style of play and his preferred player type will lead to nothing but strife next year. I can't see past anything other than relegation after which point we have to start again. This could be more harmful in the long run. Its fantasy to suggest with more money he could build a better team. He's been in management for 17 years and he has never ever succeeded in the top two divisions. He's a specialist at getting mediocre teams promoted, and that's what he's turning us into because its all he knows. The reality is we need start building for a Championship promotion campaign now. Other than the potential of Hume, there is not one player, yet, who has staked a claim to be at the core of a Championship winning/promotion to the PL team.

The way i see it is we're at the black jack table and we've been dealt two 7's. There's a chance we could win with 14, but it would require every one else to mess up and bust. I think we twist.

That's a good post and the only post out of hundreds that has at least a go at giving a well thought out rational argument for sacking Parkinson today. Don't agree with lots of the points. I don't think there ar any teams in this league that can claim to have a core of players good enough to compete in the upper echelons of the championship. Bailey Wright is the best defender in the league and Bristol City let him go. There is no doubt this team would struggle in the division above but that will go for any manager under this ownership. How does any manger build a championship promotion team with these owners and salary cap?
 
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