October 2020 - Getting worse across Europe.

There put a disproportionate strain on healthcare. There's no denying it. A tiny percentage of a large number is still a large number especially when there's simple interventions to massively reduce those chances. Any additional admissions is strain on services when people are waiting for planned care and elective surgeries but waiting lists are increasing.
Data from UK recently showed that you were 6-14 times more likely to end up in hospital unvaccinated. That's increased further with booster rollout.
If you want a return to normality, get your injections.
The numbers are negligible given the very high numbers who are vaccinated. The strain on health services from the unvaccinated argument pigeon has flown.
There are many, many things that the general population could do to improve their overall health. Should we be legislating mandatory vaccines/treatments for all the other health ailments that could put a strain on medical services ? Smoking, drinking, bad diets, etc. etc.
 


My knowledge base isn't much different to anyone elses when it comes to covid and deaths.
But without the vaccines I think Aug 2021+ would've been awful for deaths and admissions, similar or worse than Nov-Dec 2020. Health and social care have just about clung on the past few months, I very much doubt that would've happened without the vaccines. We'd have had no option to put further restrictions in place to delay things and avoid deaths due to NHS being overwhelmed.
You only need to look at the admission and death rates for vaccinated vs unvaccinated over the last month to see that.
(You could work out rough estimates for deaths and admissions without vaccines from the weekly reports but I'd only mess it up at the moment, too much pain relief and steroids!)
I get that most health services would be overwhelmed, but would it have been over quicker with less variants, or none at all.
 
Soory mate, that was supposed to be for rudd...but I had a similar thought regarding mutations, but a bit scary if a virus has some knowledge of vaccines and makes a move to counter the resistance.

Everything in the universe is intelligent, so maybe it's possible.
That's the scary thing - I think I read an article in NG a while ago that suggested viruses are, to some extent, capable to mutating to bypass vaccines. They're fascinating things.
 
That's the scary thing - I think I read an article in NG a while ago that suggested viruses are, to some extent, capable to mutating to bypass vaccines. They're fascinating things.
Pathogens were installed 4 billion years ago when there was no life on Earth...like a police force watching over everything, ready to intervene if we screw up...it's a delicate balance whatever the truth.
 
The numbers are negligible given the very high numbers who are vaccinated. The strain on health services from the unvaccinated argument pigeon has flown.
Simply untrue when rates of admission are 4-8 times that in unvaccianted. The also occupy 70%+ of ICU admissions. Have you any idea how labour intensive an ICU bed is? Have you care for infectious people in hospital? Do you appreciate the detriment enhanced infection control measures have on capacity to treat other patients? The increased length of hospital stays for those unvaccinated.

You can argue all you want by saying "it's negligible", "it's tiny", but util you actually break down the numbers and impact your argument is worthless.
There are many, many things that the general population could do to improve their overall health. Should we be legislating mandatory vaccines/treatments for all the other health ailments that could put a strain on medical services ? Smoking, drinking, bad diets, etc. etc.

No. Not sure what your point it? How many of those things can be massively reduced with a procedure that takes seconds?
 
In just about every European country the take up rate for the vaccine is 85% / 90%. I very much doubt whether the remaining people who are unvaccinated pose putting a strain on their respective health services. A tiny percentage would need hospital treatment.
Take it up with the government in the European countries. However the fear was that even a small percentage of a big number is still a big number. If you are ten times more likely to need hospital treatment then you are a liability in these strained times.
 
I get that most health services would be overwhelmed, but would it have been over quicker with less variants, or none at all.
Not sure but I'd tend to the view that widespread transmission would lead to further mutations. Not sure if there's any epidemiologists on here?

Mutations are a chance event. Those chances increase every time the virus replicates. If there's widespread transmission, those chances increase.
That's been one of the concerns about Omicron; it spreads really quickly and there's increased chances of further mutations as a result. There's a sublineage of Omicron that is being watched at the moment.
Thankfully we've been lucky with Omicron in that massively increased transmission has been offset with reduced morbidity and increased immunity offered from vaccine rollout.
We already know immunity from infection and vaccines wane and mutations can lead to increased re-infection like the current strain.

In summary, I don't know! it's a lot to do with chance imo.
 
The 8 anti vaxxers would say the majority of the 24 vaxxed would of ended up in hospital anyway.Sadly they are probably right.

Tell you what mind got the train from cz to sk this morning - no restrictions cos triple jabbed but it's like night and day with restrictions - fuck all in cz, loads in sk
 
250ish/80ish
Cheers. I'd argue that they're not numbers that will overwhelm the Czech health service. Similar percentages are also being seen elsewhere in Europe. Omnicron is rampant here at the minute, hospitals are not being over run. Same in Holland.
Take it up with the government in the European countries. However the fear was that even a small percentage of a big number is still a big number. If you are ten times more likely to need hospital treatment then you are a liability in these strained times.
I don't know where you got that number from, the reality seems to be about 3 to 1.
 
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I don't know where you got that number from, the reality seems to be about 3 to 1.

If that's correct, you also have to take into consideration the fact that those vaxxed are the oldest and sickest in society..those unvaxxed are younger and consider themselves fit and healthy with no underlying conditions.

I would think if you took say those under 60 with no underlying conditions, vaxxed to unvaxxed would be way more than 10 to 1
 
If my grandmother had gonads she'd be my grandfather.

See @Lambchops post further up the board. Similar figures here in Spain.
Also,
Covid-19: Fact check—how many patients in hospital are unvaccinated?
If my grandmother had gonads she'd be my grandfather.

See @Lambchops post further up the board. Similar figures here in Spain.
Also,
Covid-19: Fact check—how many patients in hospital are unvaccinated?
I’ve read the link there is no 3 to 1 ratio.
If there is a 3 to 1 ratio in hospitalisations and 90% of the population are vaccinated then for every vaccinated person that is hospitalised there are 30 unvaccinated in hospital. Also there is no data on the severity or length of stay.
 
I’ve read the link there is no 3 to 1 ratio.
If there is a 3 to 1 ratio in hospitalisations and 90% of the population are vaccinated then for every vaccinated person that is hospitalised there are 30 unvaccinated in hospital. Also there is no data on the severity or length of stay.
My point is that the unvaccinated numbers are such that they are not going to overwhelm healthcare systems as we keep getting told as part of the "ruse". That argument went out the window once 85%-90% of populations got vaccinated.
 

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