NZ test squad chat

[Voice of fair play]

So why is putting Root to 3 suddenly the answer to all our problems?

Its not, there is loads of problems.

But at the risk of repeating myself it's a key postition and we letting new sometimes nervous , sometimes not good enough players bat there, when one of the best batsman in the world refuses too.

I honestly can't see why he has not either taken that responsibility or been made too.

 

[TopCat]

Its not, there is loads of problems.

But at the risk of repeating myself it's a key postition and we letting new sometimes nervous , sometimes not good enough players bat there, when one of the best batsman in the world refuses too.

I honestly can't see why he has not either taken that responsibility or been made too.

I prefer the approach where you play 3 openers (Cook, Stoneman, Hamid?) then you have your engine room at 4, 5 & 6. Last thing you want is your best batsman coming in at 0/1 after 2 balls. Openers are there to stave off the new ball, then your middle order cash in (in an ideal world)

 

[mackembhoy]

So why is putting Root to 3 suddenly the answer to all our problems?

It isn’t but you don’t stick a rookie at 3 or Vince who’d probably be better at 4/5(wishful thinking)

Root will still be excellent at 3. Most of ya best ever batsman have played at 3

 

[brandon]

I prefer the approach where you play 3 openers (Cook, Stoneman, Hamid?) then you have your engine room at 4, 5 & 6. Last thing you want is your best batsman coming in at 0/1 after 2 balls. Openers are there to stave off the new ball, then your middle order cash in (in an ideal world)

The talk at one point was Cook, Hameed, Jennings, in some order or other. Which I have to say was an idea I was fond of, if they were all fit and firing. However they clearly have not been, together.

Do we have another opener who is genuinely deserving of a place in the side? I don't think we do.

Nor, for that matter, do we have any natural number 3's that deserve to be in the side.

So with that in mind, I'd be giving Root the ultimatum if I was in charge of England.

 

[TheRey]

He should have be batting there for the last 18 months, he has let rookie players take that responsibility

He is the captain and best batsman it's about taking responsibility.

Doesn't want to bat at 3 tough fuck he should be made to bat at 3.

Not often I agree with you mate, but you're spot on here.

We can all see it's best for the team for Root to bat 3, but he won't even consider it. It's piss poor.

 

[SA96]

Vince has shown signs that he's a capable test match player. Ballance is shite and looks out of his depth.

 

[TheRey]

Pretty happy with Rocky keeping his place and having another go - no problem with that, although he needs to go big in NZ to avoid the scrapheap.
Vince has a Test average of 22, failed again in Aus with the same failings, and gets reselected.
Livingstone fair enough, but what on earth does Rory Burns have to do to get a look in!?

And why isn't at least one of Ali and Broad being rested ahead of a long, difficult summer? After what's just happened, why is Wood, incredibly unreliable with injuries, our only quick bowler?


Forget September 2019, Bayliss can fuck off now.

 

[Steak Pie]

So they call up Livingstone, which isn't a bad call, but what is the purpose? Is he going to bat at 2 or 3? Unlikely. They've said Vince and Stoneman deserve another chance. Root, Malan, Cook and Bairstow are shoe-ins.
What do they do with Ali? Surely hes unselectable right now?

Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root (c), Malan, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes, Wood, Broad, Anderson

Is that our best bet? Does Crane come in for Ali and (slightly) weaken the batting?


Root doesn't want to bat 3

Livingstone is a number 3 and - I'm going to keep banging this drum until people start to believe me - should have been in the team at the start of last summer as he's the best natural batting talent I've seen in a long time.

If it's between him and Vince for the no.3 spot then it's no contest.

Root simply has to bat at 3, its a disgrace if he doesn't.

Surely the "exception talent" that is Jos Buttler should bat there? No?

 

[elder]

Vince has shown signs that he's a capable test match player. Ballance is shite and looks out of his depth.

excellent ashes tour. nice tan and got some shopping in iirc.*

* i didn't know had been here until he wasn't picked for NZ

 

[Big Bird]

I can't think of any decent reasons why not, over the last few years he has been practically coming in the early overs of a innings anyway.

It's international test cricket surely batsman should be told where to bat that suits the team not where they prefer!

If it's problem postition that we both agree it's about big players taking that responsibility.

Vince getting loads of criticism on this thread, maybe if he was brought into the team batting at six he may have done better rather than been chucked in at the deep end

He was brought in at five against Sri Lanka and did Fuck all before he got promoted to four against Pakistan and low and behold once again produced fuck all (Root batted at 3, quite well). Then after a spell out of the side, he continued his progression up the batting order to three. In no way was he thrown in at the deep end, he's just shit. Though it would follow that he is inline to open in NZ following his track record. Can't wait to see him "gracefully" cover drive his to 20 before nicking off again

 

[brandon]

Vince has shown signs that he's a capable test match player. Ballance is shite and looks out of his depth.

Has he fuck!

12 matches and an average of 22...... you get bowlers with better returns.

He was brought in at five against Sri Lanka and did Fuck all before he got promoted to four against Pakistan and low and behold once again produced fuck all (Root batted at 3, quite well). Then after a spell out of the side, he continued his progression up the batting order to three. In no way was he thrown in at the deep end, he's just shit. Though it would follow that he is inline to open in NZ following his track record. Can't wait to see him "gracefully" cover drive his to 20 before nicking off again

What we saw against SL and Pakistan was that he cannot play against the moving ball. How many times was he out nicking a swinging ball due to a careless waft outside off stump?

What does it tend to do in NZ, like it does in England? Swing considerably. Bad crack when an Englishman can't play the swinging ball. Suppose that's what happens when you play half your games at a place like Hampshire.

 

[WCC]

Cannot understand how Vince gets another go like, he has shown that he is unwilling to work on his technique which seems to be play a few lovely looking cover drives then get caught nicking off.

But are we really surprised?

 

[Voice of fair play]

I prefer the approach where you play 3 openers (Cook, Stoneman, Hamid?) then you have your engine room at 4, 5 & 6. Last thing you want is your best batsman coming in at 0/1 after 2 balls. Openers are there to stave off the new ball, then your middle order cash in (in an ideal world)

That's the point though, for a lot of his career for England he has been coming in very very early anyway, and done that successfully, imo he has scored runs because he is a top class batsman,not because he has batted 4, he started off his career as a opener anyway and would continue to be successful at 3.

You could argue, the you actually want your best batsman facing them new ball conditions as he is more likely to get through that period than new perhaps nervous rookie players..

I do think that Vince should have been started further down the order.

He was brought in at five against Sri Lanka and did Fuck all before he got promoted to four against Pakistan and low and behold once again produced fuck all (Root batted at 3, quite well). Then after a spell out of the side, he continued his progression up the batting order to three. In no way was he thrown in at the deep end, he's just shit. Though it would follow that he is inline to open in NZ following his track record. Can't wait to see him "gracefully" cover drive his to 20 before nicking off again

Yeah fair enough mate, I suppose Vince is a bad example, however my point still stands that Root should bat ac3 rather than chucking new inexperienced players at 3,

If Root batted ar 3 we could allow a new player such as Livingstone for example to bat at 6.

Livingstone is a number 3 and - I'm going to keep banging this drum until people start to believe me - should have been in the team at the start of last summer as he's the best natural batting talent I've seen in a long time.

If it's between him and Vince for the no.3 spot then it's no contest.



Surely the "exception talent" that is Jos Buttler should bat there? No?

Just ignore you comment about Buttler as that is not what I meant which you probably know,why can't Livingstone bat at 6, putting him at 3 would be unfair on the lad

 

[Liverpool Beachball]

Vince has shown signs that he's a capable test match player. Ballance is shite and looks out of his depth.

Vince- 12 tests, 20 innings, 0 centuries, 2 50s, average 22.70

Ballance- 23 tests, 42 innings, 4 centuries, 7 50s, average 37.45

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

I don’t think Vince has technical problems, I just think he can’t concentrate and is a bit thick

 

[elder]

not exactly on topic but the one day team are playing just down the road from me.. i had no idea. it's on my usual cycle route home but I got the bus tonight which goes a different way.

 

[rentaghost]

I don’t think Vince has technical problems, I just think he can’t concentrate and is a bit thick

To be honest I think hes a bit limited. He scores all of his runs woth forcing shots usually through the covers mid off areas and if he cuts those out as scoring shots then he doesn't have many other areas to scorer his runs. He doesnt manipulate the ball or glance or nurdle for ones and twos like other players do. Thats why he keeps playing drives when the ball is up there and why he will always get out. He hasnt worked at his game enough in other areas IMO.

 

[Jack Torrance]

Has he fuck!

12 matches and an average of 22...... you get bowlers with better returns.



What we saw against SL and Pakistan was that he cannot play against the moving ball. How many times was he out nicking a swinging ball due to a careless waft outside off stump?

What does it tend to do in NZ, like it does in England? Swing considerably. Bad crack when an Englishman can't play the swinging ball. Suppose that's what happens when you play half your games at a place like Hampshire.

It's not like he was up to much in the county stuff either. Averaged under 33 last season

 

[Manbearpig81]

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56 18.26

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17 19.64

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16 31.31
6 37.66
31 38.80
12 51.41
1 197.00

Bowling averages of the fast bowlers going to NZ. There's no way Woakes and Broad should be considered automatic picks based on the last year. I'd pick Anderson/TRJ/Wood at the moment but if Wood isn't fit or isn't up to pace in the ODI's I'd give Overton another go.

 

[Jack Torrance]

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56 18.26

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17 19.64

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16 31.31
6 37.66
31 38.80
12 51.41
1 197.00

Bowling averages of the fast bowlers going to NZ. There's no way Woakes and Broad should be considered automatic picks based on the last year. I'd pick Anderson/TRJ/Wood at the moment but if Wood isn't fit or isn't up to pace in the ODI's I'd give Overton another go.

Those the figures since start of 2017? Life after Jimmy looks bleak