Not guilty



dangermows said:
You could argue anyone who goes out and butchers someone isn't right in the head tbf.



Good point.
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You could, but there's a huge difference between being ill and being evil. Being mentally unwell doesn't make you evil. It doesn't make you a dangerous person by default either.
 
rudd said:
You could, but there's a huge difference between being ill and being evil. Being mentally unwell doesn't make you evil. It doesn't make you a dangerous person by default either.
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Good post. The general public do not accept that mental illness is a reason for criminal acts, especially in high profile cases. Result -- we punish the mentally ill, and fill up our prisons with them.
 
foolzy said:
The lad was diagnosed with mental health issues before the killing and told staff he would hurt people. Anger should be more directed towards the mental health provision but as is the SMB way just hang him....
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Telling staff he would hurt people obviously fell on deaf ears by the looks of things. The fact the kid was extremely unwell and voiced such thoughts would surely deem him high risk ?. He should have been taken in for assessment by mental health professionals and most likely sectioned for the safety of himself and others. Taking knives out with the express reason of killing someone shows premeditation mind you, but hell knows what was in his head when he chose an innocent woman going about her work.
Nothing can bring back poor Joan bless her, but surely lessons must be learned as I'd be fuming if I was her family.
 
the boot said:
Good post. The general public do not accept that mental illness is a reason for criminal acts, especially in high profile cases. Result -- we punish the mentally ill, and fill up our prisons with them.
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Haven't some people faked being mentally ill!? Not saying that's the case here by the way, but it's an attempted tactic used by some.
 
dangermows said:
Haven't some people faked being mentally ill!? Not saying that's the case here by the way, but it's an attempted tactic used by some.
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Yup, they quite often get found out but some certainly will have gotten away with it (serve a few years in a mental health facility, play ball, take your pills, be well behaved and then deemed fit enough to reenter society come the time you pass all their assessments).
 
So he chose to stop taking his medication knowing what kind of thing would happen.

He chose to start drinking very heavily.

If he hadn't 'chose' to do those things she may still be alive, I know he has severe mental issues but he must have known what would happen and should be held responsible. As someone said earlier he told staff this would happen so I think he concocted a plan to prove himself right.
Just my opinion.
 
the boot said:
Good post. The general public do not accept that mental illness is a reason for criminal acts, especially in high profile cases. Result -- we punish the mentally ill, and fill up our prisons with them.
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It puzzles me how mental illness is an accepted contributory factor for self harm/suicide but not as a factor in harm to others.

niceonemarra said:
So he chose to stop taking his medication knowing what kind of thing would happen.

He chose to start drinking very heavily.

If he hadn't 'chose' to do those things she may still be alive, I know he has severe mental issues but he must have known what would happen and should be held responsible. As someone said earlier he told staff this would happen so I think he concocted a plan to prove himself right.
Just my opinion.
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He is being held responsible, he's being sentenced for manslaughter.
 
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RIP Joan.
niceonemarra said:
So he chose to stop taking his medication knowing what kind of thing would happen.

He chose to start drinking very heavily.

If he hadn't 'chose' to do those things she may still be alive, I know he has severe mental issues but he must have known what would happen and should be held responsible. As someone said earlier he told staff this would happen so I think he concocted a plan to prove himself right.
Just my opinion.
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Fair points. And why is he putting together a collection of machetes and swords ffs!? It's not like he was in the shop, heard voices so acted there and then. He has gone on a canny old journey, with a bag of weapons and even took a mask to cover his identity.
 
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dangermows said:
Haven't some people faked being mentally ill!? Not saying that's the case here by the way, but it's an attempted tactic used by some.
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Yes that’s the problem. That’s why nobody believes them. You say not in this case but mention people lying about being mentally ill. Which inadvertently links the two.

dangermows said:
RIP Joan.


Fair points. And why is he putting together a collection of machetes and swords ffs!? It's not like he was in the shop, heard voices so acted there and then. He has gone on a canny old journey, with a bag of weapons and even took a mask to cover his identity.
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Because he’s mentally ill. Fact.

rudd said:
It puzzles me how mental illness is an accepted contributory factor for self harm/suicide but not as a factor in harm to others.


He is being held responsible, he's being sentenced for manslaughter.
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People don’t realise that people also lie about ‘not’ being mentally ill.

Look the lad was mentally ill. Both sides accept this which leads me to think he has history. It doesn’t ease the heart ache or take away any pain for the loved ones left behind and my heartfelt condolences go out to the family. And I hope Joan rests in peace. A tragedy.
 
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the boot said:
Yes that’s the problem. That’s why nobody believes them. You say not in this case but mention people lying about being mentally ill. Which inadvertently links the two.


Because he’s mentally ill. Fact.


People don’t realise that people also lie about ‘not’ being mentally ill.

Look the lad was mentally ill. Both sides accept this which leads me to think he has history. It doesn’t ease the heart ache or take away any pain for the loved ones left behind and my heartfelt condolences go out to the family. And I hope Joan rests in peace. A tragedy.
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Exactly. He is mentally ill. He was diagnosed prior to doing this. You cannot judge his thought process by the thought process of sane people - i.e. that the gathering of weapons is pre-meditation to killing someone. Hard one to accept and understand but there is a reason we have manslaughter by diminished responsibility and while it has no doubt been used as a 'cop out' by killers and their solicitors in the past this is clearly not one of those cases.
 
dangermows said:
Well obviously not in this case as he's had history long before the incident it seems.
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So why say people lie about being mentally ill?
People also lie and say they are not when they are.
Cherry knowle (you know what I mean). Is full of people lying that they are and lying that they are not mentally ill. That’s what makes the job hard.
 

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