Not guilty

mymatethetaxidriver said:
He went out knowing he wanted to murder a woman , he took a bag of various knives with him along with masks to allow him to do it . Therefore he seemed pretty sane in his thinking , knowing what he wanted to do .
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The ability to behave rationally to carry out an irrational thought does not necessarily constitute sanity, e.g. if the voices in my head were telling me to burn down a block of flats, and I did so in a methodical and precise fashion, is that sanity?
 


pavarotti1980 said:
How often does that happen in practice under section 3?
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No idea.

Frijj said:
Well, yes, but I was referring to people who are out in the community.
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That is who gets sectioned but yes you are correct doctors cannot force people to take medication.

vinegar hill said:
As big a scandal as the deed is the fact he was walking the streets.
No one is held accountable for that though.
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There is a balance of risk. Would you lock up everyone who may or may not be a risk?
 
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maygo said:
By that definition then surely all murders would be deemed manslaughter, what criteria do you need to meet to get charged with murder?
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There isn't a definition in statute, it's common law but it's generally that someone of sound mind, unlawfully and intentionally causes the death of another human.

It's complex and way above my understanding; you can have the intent to harm someone but not kill them, but they die as a result of your actions then you can still be charged with murder. I'm sure someone on here will be able to explain it more clearly.
 
rudd said:
It's difficult to say, but you wouldn't try to get someone detained for purely not taking medication. The individual may be subject to a Community Treatment Order and they could be brought back into hospital if they didn't follow the treatment and stipulations of the Order. Even in that case, most often they are brought into hospital, given the medication and discharged shortly after without an application or section 2 or 3 being made.
About CTOs | Mind, the mental health charity - help for mental health problems

Someone can't be placed under Section 2 or 3 for failing to take medication unless risks are severe and apparent.
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They would have to a risk to themselves or others.
 
"He's playing the mental health card"

Pretty well prepared for this then seeing as he was diagnosed and treated for psychosis years before this.

I think this is as clear a mental health problem as it can be and the judge was right to instruct the jury towards the manslaughter charge. It does not mean he is getting away with anything. Or that his sentence will be lenient. In fact does it not mean he can be detained indefinitely if sectioned under the mental health act?
 
Bob Fleming said:
"He's playing the mental health card"

Pretty well prepared for this then seeing as he was diagnosed and treated for psychosis years before this.

I think this is as clear a mental health problem as it can be and the judge was right to instruct the jury towards the manslaughter charge. It does not mean he is getting away with anything. Or that his sentence will be lenient. In fact does it not mean he can be detained indefinitely if sectioned under the mental health act?
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Yes, indefinite detention is a possibility and the very fact he is in Rampton at present means he is already detained under the Mental Health Act.
 
the crime of murder is committed, where a person:
  • of sound mind and discretion (i.e. sane);
  • unlawfully kills (i.e. not self-defence or other justified killing);
  • any reasonable creature (human being);
  • in being (born alive and breathing through its own lungs - Rance v Mid-Downs Health Authority (1991) 1 All ER 801 and AG Ref No 3 of 1994 (1997) 3 All ER 936;
  • under the Queen's Peace;
  • with intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm (GBH).
it appears the kid fails the first test of being of sound mind
 
The lad grew up next door to my parents, he was a lovely lad growing up always used to offer to do shopping for my disabled mother and would tidy the garden for her. There were signs that something was wrong as he got older though as my parents would often hear him talking to himself in the passageway between their 2 houses.

It is devastating for the family of the victim and nothing will change that but I do hope Ethan gets the help that he obviously needs.
 
qixman said:
The lad grew up next door to my parents, he was a lovely lad growing up always used to offer to do shopping for my disabled mother and would tidy the garden for her. There were signs that something was wrong as he got older though as my parents would often hear him talking to himself in the passageway between their 2 houses.

It is devastating for the family of the victim and nothing will change that but I do hope Ethan gets the help that he obviously needs.
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Very sad to read that. He didn't get the help and support he needed and it's ended up with a family losing their mother and grandmother. Heart breaking for them. Heart breaking for his family too.

I just wish the facebook angries could understand this.
 
Bob Fleming said:
Very sad to read that. He didn't get the help and support he needed and it's ended up with a family losing their mother and grandmother. Heart breaking for them. Heart breaking for his family too.

I just wish the facebook angries could understand this.
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Psychosis can take anyone and I’m pretty sure young men are one of the highest risk groups. It’s a very sad case on both sides.

Unfortunately there will always be a contingent of people who just have to be angry and seek pitchfork justice.
 
There is a balance of risk. Would you lock up everyone who may or may not be a risk?[/QUOTE]

Some of these people have a record as long as my arm.
 
the veteran said:
Definitely doesn't feel like justice...shouldn't of really been out in the 1st place...all the mental health hospitals seem to have dried up lately probably due to budget cuts I'd imagine.....what's replaced bede wing in shields?...where do patients go that used to be looked after by cherry Knowles....
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The new cherry knowle.
 

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