Not Guilty of Murder -Kieran Williams Trial Verdict

Kent_Mackem said:
Let’s remember those 12 people sat through the entire case and heard all of the evidence.

I’m assuming you weren’t in the public gallery throughout and therefore the only information you have on this case is that which has filtered down through news reports. They rarely, if ever provide the full picture.

I agree there are plenty of morons about but that is due to a failing education system which has led to a dumbed-down society. That’s not a weakness of the justice system. Being judged by peers is a critically important piece of our system.
Click to expand...
I agree regarding the Jury system and that media reporting is not comprehensive but also at times very inaccurate of proceedings.

I'm not so sure that a failing education system is to blame for the arrogant and selfish attitude of the many morons in society. There are just as many examples of similar morons among very intelligent and well educated people who are successful in society.

There are undoubtably failures in the criminal justice system, one of which is the lack of consistency in sentencing and the appeal process does not eliminate that inconsistency for most people but tends to benefit those whose have substantial experience in criminal activity.
 
Last edited:


columbo70 said:
5 were originally arrested in conspiracy to murder.....the 2 young lads eventually coughed up but blamed each other,,,,,,its a story where we dont know the true facts....and Im assuming the JURY thought this way too

Click to expand...

All of that may be true, mate.

B
columbo70 said:
5 were originally arrested in conspiracy to murder.....the 2 young lads eventually coughed up but blamed each other,,,,,,its a story where we dont know the true facts....and Im assuming the JURY thought this way too

Click to expand...

All of that may be true, mate.

But by their own admission, they were both there.

One of them argued he was coerced and had no idea it was going to happen and walked free. When you include that some point after the murder he used the other lad's phone to text his mam, then they were still together and friendly.

The other one's finger prints were found in the grave.

It's difficult to understand how the lad who was convicted wasn't done for murder under joint enterprise (given his fingerprints were in the grave) and how the other lad walked free (given he admitted being there and the phone issue).

It is true that there must be more information that came out in court, but without knowing that, and everyone is guessing; it's difficult to see how they both weren't found guilty and lad whose fingerprints were in the grave was not charged with murder.
 
Last edited:
Stupid, ignorant, lying bags of skin and bone who take from society but give nothing back.

Everything's 'mate' this, and 'mate' that, until they get into bother and then they turn on each other (and other innocent parties) like the scummy rats they are.

I wouldn't be surprised if not one word that they said from being arrested to their court appearance bore even a fleeting association to the truth.

Somebody being stabbed 20 times is not 'accidental'. It is way beyond braying somebody to 'teach them a lesson' or 'send a message'. Even they, with their attitudes desensitised to others' suffering by ignorance and years of association with others of similar mindsets, will know that what they were doing was wrong on so many levels.

Send animals like these (and I apologise for describing them as thus to actual animals who for the most part only kill for food to survive) away until they're old enough that they can't cause any more damage to society. If the prisons are full and over-crowded, so f@ck. If they don't like it they shouldn't have done something to cause them to be sent there.

Build more prisons and staff them accordingly, if that's what needed. In the meantime, let the vermin suffer. It'll be a more appropriate punishment for them - and give them sentences that mean something.

These type of people are, for the most part, irredeemable. They won't ever be productive members of society. The likelihood is that the one who was acquitted will spend most of his time 'bragging' about how he 'got away with it' to his like-minded 'mates' whilst the other one will be out in a couple of years to do the same.

Cases like this sicken me.
 
Last edited:
Locke's SAFC said:
All of that may be true, mate.

B


All of that may be true, mate.

But by their own admission, they were both there.

One of them argued he was coerced and had no idea it was going to happen and walked free. When you include that some point after the murder he used the other lad's phone to text his mam, then they were still together and friendly.

The other one's finger prints were found in the grave.

It's difficult to understand how the lad who was convicted wasn't done for murder under joint enterprise (given his fingerprints were in the grave) and how the other lad walked free (given he admitted being there and the phone issue).

It is true that there must be more information that came out in court, but without knowing that, and everyone is guessing; it's difficult to see how they both weren't found guilty and lad whose fingerprints were in the grave was not charged with murder.
Click to expand...

Is it not as simple as they have no proof of who did the stabbing so can't nail one down for murder (could it be another party?] The finger prints place one them there for definite, so he's been done for manslaughter as they deem enough evidence to at least say he was definitely involved?
 
dangermows said:
Is it not as simple as they have no proof of who did the stabbing so can't nail one down for murder (could it be another party?] The finger prints place one them there for definite, so he's been done for manslaughter as they deem enough evidence to at least say he was definitely involved?
Click to expand...
yep...in the end all the police had was the fingerprints and mobile fone pings from the tower........once that was established the lads were probably instructed to blame each other and say nowt else.

There was no cctv , clothers evidence , witnesses..... was it far fetched for 3 good mates to suddenly turn on each other and commit a horrendous crime for a motive we still dont know........like the news report said the police intially arrested 5 people.....the police suggested at the time there was more to it but the 2 lads would not break their stories or their allegiance to whoever,,,,,they all seemed to be connected and good friends to the local boxing club nearby.......I fear its a story we may find out in years to come
 
Last edited:
columbo70 said:
but the 2 lads would not break their stories or their allegiance to whoever
Click to expand...
Another thing that these maggots have in common is a misplaced sense of loyalty to someone higher up the pecking order of whatever it is they're mixed up in.

They think by keeping schtum they'll gain some kind of credit or 'respect' when in reality the the person(s) they're protecting will not give a flying f@ck about them and will only be glad that they don't have to take any of the flak or aggro themselves.

As soon as they get off (as in this case with one of them) or get out of prison (as with the other, assuming he gets the expected feeble sentence) they'll be dropped like hot potatoes and anything they've been promised will never materialise. They could even end up in the same state that they left their so-called 'mate' to make sure they can't change their minds and tell about what actually happened.

They're part of an underclass that is working it's way more and more into society and I genuinely fear for the world my Grandchildren will grow up to experience.
 
Jap Stammer said:
Another thing that these maggots have in common is a misplaced sense of loyalty to someone higher up the pecking order of whatever it is they're mixed up in.

They think by keeping schtum they'll gain some kind of credit or 'respect' when in reality the the person(s) they're protecting will not give a flying f@ck about them and will only be glad that they don't have to take any of the flak or aggro themselves.

As soon as they get off (as in this case with one of them) or get out of prison (as with the other, assuming he gets the expected feeble sentence) they'll be dropped like hot potatoes and anything they've been promised will never materialise. They could even end up in the same state that they left their so-called 'mate' to make sure they can't change their minds and tell about what actually happened.

They're part of an underclass that is working it's way more and more into society and I genuinely fear for the world my Grandchildren will grow up to experience.
Click to expand...
if there is more to the story , like the police and defence lawyer suggested and in years to come they do gain a conscience , then yes , you are spot on....they will be a liability......they may at the moment been promised money or treat like heros but that will end eventually...........it really makes me mad this kind of behaviour...it really does......I hate these type of people
 
Last edited:
The truth is that no matter how many fringe members of these gangs/groups you manage to convict and incarcerate, as long as the core members who are more criminally experienced and astute get away with it then the problem will continue to fester and grow like a cancer. Fringe members can be replaced with ease. The numbers may look good on paper with crimes appearing to be solved but we all know the reality down on the street.
 
Last edited:
Mercia Blackcat said:
The truth is that no matter how many fringe members of these gangs/groups you manage to convict and incarcerate, as long as the core members who are more criminally experienced and astute get away with it then the problem will continue to fester and grow like a cancer. Fringe members can be replaced with ease. The numbers may look good on paper with crimes appearing to be solved but we all know the reality down on the street.
Click to expand...
This, same with drugs cases, the main sh1t stains get away with it every time. This country is fkd up at moment, coppers hands are tied, too few hands, underfunded. Bit of a lawless state at moment, the wronguns know they can do anything they want really.
 
Kent_Mackem said:
I wouldn't have thought so. The Facebook Jury have found him guilty (without hearing all of the evidence of course) even if the Crown Court did not.
Click to expand...
You might be surprised how much Facebook groups know about local characters and what really goes on although can't comment on this case as I'm not in that local group so just commenting in general.
 
Last edited:
dangermows said:
Is it not as simple as they have no proof of who did the stabbing so can't nail one down for murder (could it be another party?] The finger prints place one them there for definite, so he's been done for manslaughter as they deem enough evidence to at least say he was definitely involved?
Click to expand...

'Reckon you need someone very familiar with the law to answer that. I've been looking around the internet and I don't understand this one bit.

It's equally plausible that the jury believed Hackett did it, but convicted him of manslaughter rather than murder due to 'loss of control'.

That would explain a few things but not everything.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who knows a lot about the law.
 
Mercia Blackcat said:
You might be surprised how much Facebook groups know about local characters and what really goes on although can't comment on this case as I'm not in that local group so just commenting in general.
Click to expand...
But that’s the whole point. Each case needs to be judged on the evidence alone.

Not on press speculation, Facebook gossip or knowledge of the defendants’ past behaviour and dealings.

I don’t know the details of this case and neither does annybody else. The jury heard the evidence and did not find them guilty. The details may come out on a documentary but any comment on here or other social media is sheer speculation.
 
Kent_Mackem said:
I wouldn't have thought so. The Facebook Jury have found him guilty (without hearing all of the evidence of course) even if the Crown Court did not.
Click to expand...

While I agree with you that a public opinion mob is quick to judge harshly, jump to conclusions and believe false information I have to say that on this topic, they're not wrong to feel that way.

Everyone has a right to a fair trial, but given the circumstances of what happened people have every right within reason to be angry about this.

He'll need a new name and a new identity. Even if you are truthfully innocent when you are accused of something that horrible there's no forgive and forget.
 
Two of them obviously taking the blame for other people or at least were told to blame each other and thats what happened so no actual evidence other than the fingerprints and the two of them saying each other done it whilst Mr Big will be at home laughing about it.

Its the Victims family i feel sorry for having to live the rest of their lives whilst these evil horrible scumbags celebrate and laugh at what has happened

The system is a joke really
 

Back
Top