Nikki Allan - a new arrest

ISOE II

Midfield
Re Grievson: why? Different MO, different victim profile, different part of town...
He has an attempted murder charge on file which was down Hendon way and his first victim - Simon Martin - was hit with a brick in a derelict building. Not sure it’s him like but there are similarities and murderers can change their MO as they develop their technique .
 

stapler

Full Back
Re Grievson: why? Different MO, different victim profile, different part of town...
It is a myth that serial murderers have a fixed MO, victim profile or patch. Some do, enough for it to be an observation of interest, but many don't.

Serial murder is so rare and the behaviour of its protagonists is so outside the norm that trying to draw up definite "rules" is a fool's errand.
 

Hank Scorpio

Midfield
That's true, but what about further murders?

I just can't see someone prepared to commit such a brutal act only doing it once.

I always thought it was Grieveson, because it would be unheard of for two people to be roaming around Sunderland murdering children at the same time and I'm assuming who ever murdered Nikki would have killed again at some point but there were no other such murders when Grieveson was locked up. Also, there were similarities: disused buildings, clothes left away from but near to the murder site.

Grieveson had said he murdered the boys to prevent them from telling anyone, but that's his version. Perhaps he was just pure evil and liked the feeling he got from killing. In terms of the MO, it would depend. Perhaps the boys were planned and the little girl wasn't so he just used whatever was at hand. And, he just wanted to kill again.

Either way, to stab a little girl 37 times and hit her over the head with bricks, is as brutal as it can get, so whoever did that had some very serious issues that he wouldn't have been able to control and surely a similar act would have been committed; but we never heard of one.

But, it appears it's not Grieveson, and I doubt it was more than one person - that would be highly unusual.

The police have announced they have the DNA of an unidentified man, so they must have tested the man re-arrested. If it wasn't his DNA then surely he wouldn't have been re-arrested, but if it was his DNA wouldn't that be enough to charge him with murder? I'm not quite sure how he could explain his DNA on the little girl while claiming he's innocent.
Would DNA be reliable though mate? For what I’ve read, the building was regularly used for glue sniffing. Hundreds of people probably used it ahead of the murder
 

soapster

Striker
That's true, but what about further murders?

The police have announced they have the DNA of an unidentified man, so they must have tested the man re-arrested. If it wasn't his DNA then surely he wouldn't have been re-arrested, but if it was his DNA wouldn't that be enough to charge him with murder? I'm not quite sure how he could explain his DNA on the little girl while claiming he's innocent.
at one point and I don't know if it has changed, although DNA obtained via a database is classed as intelligence, the dna at the scene has to be compared with dna taken from the accused / suspect.

However it has to be weighed against as to where the dna was recovered from. was it from the victim or was it from the scene. as said who else used that building whether for legal or illegal activity
 
Would DNA be reliable though mate? For what I’ve read, the building was regularly used for glue sniffing. Hundreds of people probably used it ahead of the murder
'Dunno. I think the sample taken was from the little girl's clothing, so the prosecution would argue why is his DNA on the clothing but not other DNA from the hundreds of people who used the building.

He's been under investigation since he was first arrested over a year back, so they clearly don't have enough to charge him. But, also he clearly can't explain his whereabouts on the night with supporting statements from others.

'Shame we don't have more details, such as how he came to the attention of the police in the first place. Has anyone heard anything about this?
 

Stato

Subs Bench
'Dunno. I think the sample taken was from the little girl's clothing, so the prosecution would argue why is his DNA on the clothing but not other DNA from the hundreds of people who used the building.

He's been under investigation since he was first arrested over a year back, so they clearly don't have enough to charge him. But, also he clearly can't explain his whereabouts on the night with supporting statements from others.

'Shame we don't have more details, such as how he came to the attention of the police in the first place. Has anyone heard anything about this?
Personally i believe he will of been arrested for with holding evidence ect.

They arrested grievson few year back but let him go as there was lack of evidence,there was always talk of others been involved with greivson at the time rest of murders,and also other attempted murders and more attempted attacks.

Grievson is main suspect for me but those who have kept there mouths shut for years are being smoked out now.
 
Personally i believe he will of been arrested for with holding evidence ect.

They arrested grievson few year back but let him go as there was lack of evidence,there was always talk of others been involved with greivson at the time rest of murders,and also other attempted murders and more attempted attacks.

Grievson is main suspect for me but those who have kept there mouths shut for years are being smoked out now.
According to reports, the man has been arrested on suspicion of the murder, not withholding evidence.

I'm not from Sunderland so have no idea what has been said in pubs and clubs, but out of interest where did this talk of more than one person come from and where has the talk come from about people keeping their mouths shut? Is it just pub gossip or is there some substance behind it?
 

soapster

Striker
According to reports, the man has been arrested on suspicion of the murder, not withholding evidence.

I'm not from Sunderland so have no idea what has been said in pubs and clubs, but out of interest where did this talk of more than one person come from and where has the talk come from about people keeping their mouths shut? Is it just pub gossip or is there some substance behind it?
it is said that every murderer discloses that secret to at least one person as the guilt or fact what they have done weighs so heavily on the mind.

No idea what is said in pubs and clubs as it is just tittle tattle anyway
 

Nozs' Hat

Central Defender
So has there been a charge? Seems odd to arrest the same person twice, but no charge brought. I don’t know anything about law etc, so it could be normal.
 

Fletch

Striker
it is said that every murderer discloses that secret to at least one person as the guilt or fact what they have done weighs so heavily on the mind.
would imagine some want to tell people , notoriety and all that , also with some will slip out when drunk/drugs etc
 
Anyone who has read the transcript of the Heron interview will know it'll not be him.
I've just been listening to a podcast from a lad who does loads of them and is a bit clued up on these sorts of things.

One of the prosecution's main points was that Heron was in the Boar's Head and was seen by various witnesses buying the little girl's favourite crisps, but when these same witnesses were asked to pick out Heron in a line up none of them could. This lad who did the podcast also said that his brother law claimed Heron had gone out for an hour at the time when the little girl was killed, but in court, under cross examination, he admitted that was a lie and Heron had actually been watching tele with him. He went onto say that the police had questioned him solid for 5 days so in the end just said what they wanted to hear. At that point, the judge threw the case out.
 

THExpress

Central Defender
There was a post on the echo page last week about the mother and the hell on she’s having with the people at that pub in Ryhope. 1 of the family members was commenting I’m sure she said one of the ones they’re having trouble with (guessing something to do with that pub?) is an ex of the person what got arrested recently.
 

RYHOPER1

Midfield
There was a post on the echo page last week about the mother and the hell on she’s having with the people at that pub in Ryhope. 1 of the family members was commenting I’m sure she said one of the ones they’re having trouble with (guessing something to do with that pub?) is an ex of the person what got arrested recently.
na

Before she was evicted from ryhope she was barred from the pub. She started calling them all rats. A picture was taken in the pub where they had pieces of cheese sticking out under their top lip. Accusations started being made after that.
 
There was a post on the echo page last week about the mother and the hell on she’s having with the people at that pub in Ryhope. 1 of the family members was commenting I’m sure she said one of the ones they’re having trouble with (guessing something to do with that pub?) is an ex of the person what got arrested recently.
One thing that did come into my mind when I listened to the podcast, but the lad doing the podcast didn't say this, is that it's more than a bit strange that Heron's sister's boyfriend would say that Heron had gone out for an hour at the time the little girl was killed and then under cross examination say that he'd lied about that, and the sister saying he had blood spatters on his trainers and then went to wash them off. If, as the boyfriend said in the court, that Heron hadn't even been out, then he couldn't have had blood spatters on his clothes.

Something doesn't add up there. If I was cross examined solid for a year I still wouldn't fit up a suspect in a murder case, and just about everyone else wouldn't. So, why did his sister and her boyfriend lie?
 

TZMouk

Midfield
One thing that did come into my mind when I listened to the podcast, but the lad doing the podcast didn't say this, is that it's more than a bit strange that Heron's sister's boyfriend would say that Heron had gone out for an hour at the time the little girl was killed and then under cross examination say that he'd lied about that, and the sister saying he had blood spatters on his trainers and then went to wash them off. If, as the boyfriend said in the court, that Heron hadn't even been out, then he couldn't have had blood spatters on his clothes.

Something doesn't add up there. If I was cross examined solid for a year I still wouldn't fit up a suspect in a murder case, and just about everyone else wouldn't. So, why did his sister and her boyfriend lie?
What's the podcast called? Always thought this case deserves more exposure.
 

Stato

Subs Bench
I've just been listening to a podcast from a lad who does loads of them and is a bit clued up on these sorts of things.

One of the prosecution's main points was that Heron was in the Boar's Head and was seen by various witnesses buying the little girl's favourite crisps, but when these same witnesses were asked to pick out Heron in a line up none of them could. This lad who did the podcast also said that his brother law claimed Heron had gone out for an hour at the time when the little girl was killed, but in court, under cross examination, he admitted that was a lie and Heron had actually been watching tele with him. He went onto say that the police had questioned him solid for 5 days so in the end just said what they wanted to hear. At that point, the judge threw the case out.
can you post link to this please mate?
 

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