New England ODI team

[NorthCountryBoy]

Tredwell is the best spinner and a few games of Chris Jordan will show Broad is ten times the bowler he is.

As for Trott, in an era of 330 totals I'm not sure he cuts it with a strike rate of 78 or whatever it is. And he's a Saffa

 

[mikemanc]

In the Lions tour Rashid took 2 wickets at more than 100 a piece. I think people are just thinking of the first spinner that comes into their head. Personally I'd be happy to have Ali as the spinner and bat at 8 or 9, I don't think he's good enough with the short ball at the top of the order regardless of being told to go in and smash it about. Only the top players can go straight in and do that, nobody else picks a lower border batsman and plays them as a pinch hitter any more.

 

[wayne entwhistle no9]

Basically as this thread suggest the cupboard is bare. Not one single quality spinner of international quality in the country or one genuine fast bowler coming through who is anywhere near good enough. From a country that has over 400 full time pros.

 

[Keith S30S]

In the Lions tour Rashid took 2 wickets at more than 100 a piece. I think people are just thinking of the first spinner that comes into their head. Personally I'd be happy to have Ali as the spinner and bat at 8 or 9, I don't think he's good enough with the short ball at the top of the order regardless of being told to go in and smash it about. Only the top players can go straight in and do that, nobody else picks a lower border batsman and plays them as a pinch hitter any more.

Treadwell is 33 and can't bat. I admit I'm picking bits and pieces cricketers to bowl a handful rather than 10 overs and chip in with a few runs anarl.

 

[johnson]

Something like...

1. Hales
2. Roy
3. Ali (All Rounder)
4. Root (Captain)
5. Taylor
6. Stokes (All rounder)
7. Buttler
8. Woakes (Bit experience)
9. ...
10. ...
11. ...

Really not sure about the bowlers. maybe Rashid. I think Stokes, another all rounder and Root for 10 overs between them unless one of the others is getting a lot of tap.

I just think its well and said having these so called big hitters in, but its a big ask, could see them getting bowled out quite a lot.

I wouldn't write people like Gary Balance off, his List A record is just as good as Taylors if not better, its more about the mentality of the players and the way they play the middle overs for me.


One thing to note, was pointed out on Sky, everyone talks about a different ODI team to the test team, if you look around the world, most of the best ODI players are also very good test players

Warner, ABDV, Amla, Kholi, Sangakkara

obviously the odd exception but for the main they are test players

The cupboard has been stripped out and burnt as fire wood .

I think Finn based on his age and that I feel if he is allowed to just run in and bowl it as quick as he can he could be of use. More use than Anderson who if it doesn't swing has nothing. Added to the fact he won't be around in 4 years time and we're rebuilding (I hate that word) again.

The problem is, the next world cups in England isn't it?

Swing will play a big part I would imagine

In the Lions tour Rashid took 2 wickets at more than 100 a piece. I think people are just thinking of the first spinner that comes into their head. Personally I'd be happy to have Ali as the spinner and bat at 8 or 9, I don't think he's good enough with the short ball at the top of the order regardless of being told to go in and smash it about. Only the top players can go straight in and do that, nobody else picks a lower border batsman and plays them as a pinch hitter any more.

I agree

I think Ali has been poor as an opener, fair enough 100 against Scotland, but he gets out to some disgusting shots, for me is a lower middle order batsmen who should concentrate on his bowling

Tredwell is the best spinner and a few games of Chris Jordan will show Broad is ten times the bowler he is.

As for Trott, in an era of 330 totals I'm not sure he cuts it with a strike rate of 78 or whatever it is. And he's a Saffa

78 is fine at 3

you need one player who will set the innings up

you can't have 7 hitters, you will just get bowled out time after time, which is what is happening to England

Broad has been shite this WC, and should probably get dropped for a bit

but you can write people like him off, because there is nobody else

all the players people have mentioned here bowler wise, aren't better than Anderson and Broad, sorry but they aren't

 

[Dexter]

Anyone over the age of 31/32 should be discarded immediately, so I'd never have the likes of Bell or Anderson playing ODI cricket again. Hopefully we can find some bowlers so that the hapless Broad can be put in the same category as well. Something like this going forward I reckon:

Hales
Roy
Root
Taylor
Buttler
Stokes
Modern Ali
Rashid
Woakes
Jordan
Finn

The bowling is still horrific, but we can at least give ourselves a chance of getting 350 - hopefully some young bowlers make a case for themselves as ideally Finn and Jordan wouldn't be in the team. The batting seems solid, but bowling wise we're really struggling.

 

[brandon]

I just think its well and said having these so called big hitters in, but its a big ask, could see them getting bowled out quite a lot.

I wouldn't write people like Gary Balance off, his List A record is just as good as Taylors if not better, its more about the mentality of the players and the way they play the middle overs for me.


One thing to note, was pointed out on Sky, everyone talks about a different ODI team to the test team, if you look around the world, most of the best ODI players are also very good test players

Warner, ABDV, Amla, Kholi, Sangakkara

obviously the odd exception but for the main they are test players



The problem is, the next world cups in England isn't it?

Swing will play a big part I would imagine



I agree

I think Ali has been poor as an opener, fair enough 100 against Scotland, but he gets out to some disgusting shots, for me is a lower middle order batsmen who should concentrate on his bowling



78 is fine at 3

you need one player who will set the innings up

you can't have 7 hitters, you will just get bowled out time after time, which is what is happening to England

Broad has been shite this WC, and should probably get dropped for a bit

but you can write people like him off, because there is nobody else

all the players people have mentioned here bowler wise, aren't better than Anderson and Broad, sorry but they aren't

I think there is a place in the side for Ballance in the future - just not at 3 and not the way the current regime have fucked around with him. You and Sky are right about good players being good at all formats too, but that unfortunately means England try to shoe horn any old Test cricketer in on the basis that they'll suddenly set the world alight. One thing with Warner, he pretty much goes hard at everything no matter what the format, similar with Sanga and Kohli - they'll score quickly in Test Matches, it is possible for the best players to adapt their game but I'd say its an easier transition down a gear, from quality ODI player to quality Test player, than it is to suddenly up a gear or two to score rapidly enough in ODI's after being a decent Test batsman.

Ali should be a 6/7, coming in down the order to clear the fence. He doesn't have the discipline (currently) to open. 78 I don't think is fine anymore at 3, look at your earlier mention of Sanga for example - he's in at 3 and rarely does he ever score at under 100 if he gets a start.

You say you can't have 7 hitters but the current structure doesn't have 7 hitters and we still can't bat for 50 overs - whats the alternative? Put it this way - I'd rather see us going hell for leather from the off and being 300 all out after 40 0vers than what we're currently 'achieving'.

Bowler wise, we've got nothing have we, but Broad and Anderson have to be dropped IMO cause they've been woeful and if you still play them after their recent performances it just proves what everyone thinks already - they're untouchable. They've become so complacent and comfortable in the team that it seems they don't care what coaches are saying or what they're trying to implement by way of gameplans for certain batsmen because the evidence suggests that they'll continue to bowl the same shocking line and length regardless.

 

[Struts]

Does anyone think that maybe the way we schedule ODI's in this country may be part of the problem? We alaways play a series right after a big test series in the middle of September right at the end of the season when no one can be bothered. Would probably help to revert back to playing a tri-series between the test series to get the team into a habit of playing in a tournament environment.

 

[mackembhoy]

Treadwell is 33 and can't bat. I admit I'm picking bits and pieces cricketers to bowl a handful rather than 10 overs and chip in with a few runs anarl.

Tredwell has 3 first class tons. Broad gets labelled as a "all rounder" yet only has 1 score higher than tredwell in odi cricket of 45(tredwells is 30)

 

[Keith S30S]

Tredwell has 3 first class tons. Broad gets labelled as a "all rounder" yet only has 1 score higher than tredwell in odi cricket of 45(tredwells is 30)

Treadwell was born in Feb 1982, he's 33.

Ali has surpassed Treadwell as a spin bowler because he can bat and their records with the ball are pretty similar.

Treadwell's batting record in ODIs is terrible:

Innings 25
High Score 30
Average 11.64
Strike Rate 67.35

Broad's average is just over 12, SR 75 so it's marginally better but I don't class him as an all rounder. He could possibly hit a quick dozen at the back end.

 

[scotch]

Hales
Roy
Vince
Stokes
Buttler
Taylor/Root
Ali
Rashid?
Woakes
Jordan
Overton

Really struggling for an out and out quick strike bowler- Plunkett, Meaker, Wood, Mills

 

[brandon]

Does anyone think that maybe the way we schedule ODI's in this country may be part of the problem? We alaways play a series right after a big test series in the middle of September right at the end of the season when no one can be bothered. Would probably help to revert back to playing a tri-series between the test series to get the team into a habit of playing in a tournament environment.

Great point. I'd be all for that, or even if not a Tri-Series just to play both touring sides, one after the other with the Test Series against those nations bookending the international series.

 

[Carteron]

I think Anderson's time has come, but Broad still has a bit to offer for me. I do however think he needs to take some time away from the international scene, and just play some more cricket. Fitness has been an issue and he seems to be permanently "undercooked". On his game he is superb, we just haven't seen it for a long time.

 

[Parkside]

I think Anderson's time has come, but Broad still has a bit to offer for me. I do however think he needs to take some time away from the international scene, and just play some more cricket. Fitness has been an issue and he seems to be permanently "undercooked". On his game he is superb, we just haven't seen it for a long time.

I fully expect Jimmy to announce his retirement from ODI' s soon. He hinted at it before the World Cup so his form in the tournament will have convinced him to do so. Never been a great white ball bowler anyway imo. Suspect the criticism will get to Broad who might well follow him .

 

[Keith S30S]

I fully expect Jimmy to announce his retirement from ODI' s soon. He hinted at it before the World Cup so his form in the tournament will have convinced him to do so. Never been a great white ball bowler anyway imo. Suspect the criticism will get to Broad who might well follow him .

Broad is still captain of the T20 side.

 

[Bri]

I read an article a while ago that called a type of test player a 'concentration' player. ie they based their game on concentrating really hard and playing 'correct' cricket shots. A typical test opener if you like.

examples would be Cook, Vaughan, Atherton, Boycott and Trott (sorry Johnson but you're plowing a lonely furrow with him)

These type of players should not be picked for ODI's. England have good ODI players who have shown themselves capable of playing good test match style innings, Stokes, Modern, Root,

Broad is still captain of the T20 side.

He's also only 28 so no chance.

He's always frustrated me as a batman because I think he's way better than his scores, if only he'd work at it a little more, but he won't he wants to be a bang it in and watch it fly fast bowler.

 

[johnson]

One point that annoys me slightly which gets spouted all the time, and to be fair even KP brought this up, is people saying "young players need to play in the IPL"

It isn't that simple, people need to want them, and they simply don't at the minute, Hales and many others have tried and not got picked

The likes of Sangakkara did not bet bought in the auction, so the likes of some young English lads getting picked is unlikely, so not exactly the ECB's fault.

Young Aussies and Saffers get picked, but that is mostly because coaches are from those countries