Muslims threaten teacher over LGBT school lessons...

Ilios said:
Islam is inherently homophobic, as are the various Christian Bibles - just that some individual Muslims and moreso Christians, tend to ignore/make excuses for the bits they disagree with - especially that bit.

The Ottoman Empire decriminalised homosexuality during the exact same political reforms that included the adoption of secular law, displacing religious law. The religious texts say what they say, and they are unambiguous - in the case of Tanzimat secular reforms, they just stopped imposing it as the de facto legal framework.
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Yes. But homosexuality has long been tolerated in Islam at the same time. From Greco-Roman beliefs during their Golden Age that same sex attractions are completely natural to lots and lots of homoerotic literature and poetry.

I'm not trying to excuse the way Islam is now. I'm just pointing out that for much of it's history, it wasn't this way. Like I say. Islam is deeply conflicted. Islam has a long tradition of toleration towards homosexuality.

What on earth do you think Oscar Wilde was doing all those times he spent in Morocco and Tangiers? They were places he could go and feel safe. He was persecuted...here.

Back to the point. This has to be nipped in the bud. We can't have professional protesters being bussed in from other areas. The quicker they deal with it publicly, the less ugly these shenanigans will be.
 


Jgrainger said:
Sky News on Twitter
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It does feel significant parts of the Muslim community are as conservative as deep south USA regarding sexuality. The big irony is portions of each hate each other.

cauldbairn said:
Gay kids exist whether their parents like it or not. It will be talked about by kids whether parents like it or not. Everything they're shouting for was a key part of Tory policy until 15 years ago and UK law until 2000. Section 28 was brought in on the same issue with the same arguments following a media campaign against a kids' book detailing a girl with two dads. It made it forbidden to "intentionally promote" homosexuality in schools and local authorities, giving youngsters no access to education on these topics. The result was to send kids and young teenagers underground in search of information, putting them in the grips of exploiters and teaching them via pornography. The only protective thing to do would be to teach kids that LGBT exists through lessons and books appropriate to their age.
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You've said more than I was going to say and and in content saved me writing a full post.

This is the sentence that covers my one reservation. Any teaching should be age appropriate.

I've said elsewhere that prior to puberty that beyond awareness, perhaps the issue is left be. It's once puberty is reached that issues have to be dealt with so kids fully understand that sexuality and gender identity are things you cannot really choose. Education is the way to deal with these to avoid predudice, isolation and promote acceptance.

Prior to puberty, I do feel awareness is enough to the degree some kids might have two mums or two dads and that's okay. I do agree in allowing kids to be kids until then, simply because we all know once puberty and sex raises it's head, life changes and via relationships and attractions becomes much more complicated.

The one complication I do acknowledge is people mature at different rates.

Section 28 shows how much the world has moved on and was a cringe-worthy, unnecessary piece of legislation. No reasonable person was ever going to promote one lifestyle ahead of others and it showed a complete lack of understanding of sexuality prevaelnt at the time.
 
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JonMc said:
Yes. But homosexuality has long been tolerated in Islam at the same time. From Greco-Roman beliefs during their Golden Age that same sex attractions are completely natural to lots and lots of homoerotic literature and poetry.

I'm not trying to excuse the way Islam is now. I'm just pointing out that for much of it's history, it wasn't this way. Like I say. Islam is deeply conflicted. Islam has a long tradition of toleration towards homosexuality.

What on earth do you think Oscar Wilde was doing all those times he spent in Morocco and Tangiers? They were places he could go and feel safe. He was persecuted...here.

Back to the point. This has to be nipped in the bud. We can't have professional protesters being bussed in from other areas. The quicker they deal with it publicly, the less ugly these shenanigans will be.
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Homosexuality was decriminalised in the Ottoman Empire way back in 1858. Many of the anti-gay laws in Muslim countries today directly date back to colonial European or Soviet rule. I'm not defending modern day Islam (honestly, I'm not, don't anyone bother trying to claim I am), but it's a point worth making.
 
Hawayawayawayaway said:
There’s a few on here wanting to protect children’s innocence as if telling kids some people have two dads or two mums involves discussion of sexual acts of sodomy etc. It’s a common homophobic line to equate the two. When teachers are teaching in primary school about family life and relationships do you think they describe straight sexual acts?

The kids are being taught about loving relationships, friendship, mutual respect and sharing whilst including same sex families in those discussions to educate that they are capable of offering this also (some kids may be being brought up in those families).

When you’re a minority relying on the majority to uphold your rights in the face of people who use intimidation to undermine you and wish to label your perfectly ordinary family life as threatening or corrupting, it’s depressing
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Excellent post

look out piano said:
I think primary school age is a bit young, kids don't know about sex / relationships / homosexuality because they're more interested in tag, footy and being kids. I think bombarding them with all that stuff is a bit much for their developing minds, my son wouldn't understand and I doubt he'd be the only one.
I have nothing again LGBT folks, but I'd prefer it if my bairn could continue living in an innocent cloud cuckoo land until he goes to secondary school.


f***ing hell Steve :eek::lol:.
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I don't think they go into that much detail on the sex bit tbh. I'd be perfectly happy if my daughter was learning that some people had two dads and some had two mams at Primary school and that it was normal - which it is.
 
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cauldbairn said:
Homosexuality was decriminalised in the Ottoman Empire way back in 1858. Many of the anti-gay laws in Muslim countries today directly date back to colonial European or Soviet rule. I'm not defending modern day Islam (honestly, I'm not, don't anyone bother trying to claim I am), but it's a point worth making.
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Which laws in which countries?
 
Guy just been on now speaking on behalf of sister and parents as he doesn't have any kids ! Don't get him
wrong he has nothing against gay people but .....
 
I don’t think it’s fair for us to judge these protesters and their belief systems, who are we to tell others what is right and what isn’t? I’ve studied Islam in great depth and it is a beautiful, peaceful religion. If we want it to stay that way then we should keep our noses out of their business and let them have autonomy over what is taught to the pupils at their school, it’s just part and parcel of living in a modern city in the current year. Educate yourself before casting judgements on those you consider to have an inferior morality to yourself and only then can you rid yourself of your problematic behaviour.
 
MorpethMackem07 said:
I don’t think it’s fair for us to judge these protesters and their belief systems, who are we to tell others what is right and what isn’t? I’ve studied Islam in great depth and it is a beautiful, peaceful religion. If we want it to stay that way then we should keep our noses out of their business and let them have autonomy over what is taught to the pupils at their school, it’s just part and parcel of living in a modern city in the current year. Educate yourself before casting judgements on those you consider to have an inferior morality to yourself and only then can you rid yourself of your problematic behaviour.
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I did sociology and social anthropology, but I can still judge a f***ing bigot if I see one - yes I'm judging it by our standards. But I'm also judging it on what is confirmed as acceptable in civilised western society, and not some backward medieval belief that "God made women for man's pleasure"

There's a difference between culture and society - essentially it's a bit like anthropology and sociology.
What is taught in our schools, reflects society as a whole. These children are being taught tolerance and understanding. Unlike what this bile spewing gobshite is doing.

People are gay. Gay people get married. Gay people can have children. Children can have gay parents.
Children born to parents (even Muslim ones) can also be gay - it's in your DNA. Can you imagine being born to parents like that, being gay and having to endure that mental struggle every day? It's no wonder there are so many suicides.
Children are also born without prejudice or beliefs about whether being gay or straight is right or wrong.

All of these things are facts and happen in this country.
If these parents don't like these FACTS, then perhaps they need further education.
 
MorpethMackem07 said:
I don’t think it’s fair for us to judge these protesters and their belief systems, who are we to tell others what is right and what isn’t? I’ve studied Islam in great depth and it is a beautiful, peaceful religion. If we want it to stay that way then we should keep our noses out of their business and let them have autonomy over what is taught to the pupils at their school, it’s just part and parcel of living in a modern city in the current year. Educate yourself before casting judgements on those you consider to have an inferior morality to yourself and only then can you rid yourself of your problematic behaviour.
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Pathetic attempt at wummery tbf and if you don’t cop yourself on I’ll spark you out!
 
The Muffin Man said:
How many openly gay kids did you have at school in the 80s? My school had none, not a single one....Strangely enough as adults lots have come out as societies attitudes have changed.......Homophobia and racism in 80s schools was rife and largely unchallenged.
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Not sure, my schools were probably more interested if you were a scruff, a slut or in care.
 
Keawyeds said:
I did sociology and social anthropology, but I can still judge a f***ing bigot if I see one - yes I'm judging it by our standards. But I'm also judging it on what is confirmed as acceptable in civilised western society, and not some backward medieval belief that "God made women for man's pleasure"

There's a difference between culture and society - essentially it's a bit like anthropology and sociology.
What is taught in our schools, reflects society as a whole. These children are being taught tolerance and understanding. Unlike what this bile spewing gobshite is doing.

People are gay. Gay people get married. Gay people can have children. Children can have gay parents.
Children born to parents (even Muslim ones) can also be gay - it's in your DNA. Can you imagine being born to parents like that, being gay and having to endure that mental struggle every day? It's no wonder there are so many suicides.
Children are also born without prejudice or beliefs about whether being gay or straight is right or wrong.

All of these things are facts and happen in this country.
If these parents don't like these FACTS, then perhaps they need further education.
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He's a dullard WUM, mate, don't waste your time.
 
jacko100 said:
Pathetic attempt at wummery tbf and if you don’t cop yourself on I’ll spark you out!
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Alright big lad, I know a good old sparker when I see one so I’ll just piss in the bushes and make my exit sharpish.
 

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