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Cockney Mackem said:
Well done, your computer survived Windows 10 for one evening. See how you're doing in 12 months after 9000 updates when every single part of your device has been reduced to a f***ing wreck, and any task you want to undertake with it requires an additional hour of waiting for it to boot and scouring the internet for fixes for whatever new problem has emerged.
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I should clarify: this is the second time I've upgraded to W10. On my previous PC it worked fine too and I upgraded only a few days after W10 was first released when it was being offered free by MS.
I've had to do it again because this PC is one I built myself scavenging bits from the old PC such as the C: drive. W10 (as with every version of Windows) is not happy when you try to run the OS on a new mobo and CPU so I had to revert to W7 using the installation disk which came with the old PC. Of course W10 isn't free now so I put off upgrading to W10 again because I'm a skinflint. Then I heard about the free download you can get if you lie about using MS Assisted Tech so tonight I did just that.

I honestly had no problems with the first installation and I can't see any problems with this so far.

And in case you think I'm being biased towards MS... up until very recently I worked as Tech Support for Apple. :D
 
Slippery Jim said:
I should clarify: this is the second time I've upgraded to W10. On my previous PC it worked fine too and I upgraded only a few days after W10 was first released when it was being offered free by MS.
I've had to do it again because this PC is one I built myself scavenging bits from the old PC such as the C: drive. W10 (as with every version of Windows) is not happy when you try to run the OS on a new mobo and CPU so I had to revert to W7 using the installation disk which came with the old PC. Of course W10 isn't free now so I put off upgrading to W10 again because I'm a skinflint. Then I heard about the free download you can get if you lie about using MS Assisted Tech so tonight I did just that.

I honestly had no problems with the first installation and I can't see any problems with this so far.

And in case you think I'm being biased towards MS... up until very recently I worked as Tech Support for Apple. :D
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Good for you. It's been a disaster for me and the thousands of people with identical problems I've found every time I've searched for help. Every time I switch it on something new is fucked
 
Cockney Mackem said:
Good for you. It's been a disaster for me and the thousands of people with identical problems I've found every time I've searched for help. Every time I switch it on something new is fucked
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This. I used to just close my laptop's lid (it's set to hibernate then) and chuck it in my briefcase ready for work. Until one day there was this smell of burning. It turned out that Windows hadn't finished the hibernation properly. The screen and keyboard, power light, disk, etc were off but the CPU still had power and had got very hot. The fan was spinning like buggery. God knows what might have happened if I hadn't spotted it. Chernobyl. It's a bug from a while back.

I always manually shut it down now. Pain the arse.

They've got the user interface spot on this time barring a few gripes, but its a bag of spanners under the hood.
 
Slippery Jim said:
I've literally just upgraded to W10 this evening. Took about half an hour and it works just fine.
During setup I told it I would choose all my default programmes so shit like Edge and Groove haven't tried to fuck with my system. Checked Device Manager and all drivers are up and running.
Downloaded Classic Shell from https://www.fosshub.com/Classic-Shell.html and now my desktop looks and acts like W7 so I'm a happy bunny.

I must just be one of the lucky ones. :cool:
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I too was pleasantly surprised when I booted up my new laptop last October and found that everything worked seemlessly.

Alas, all of the above (the bad stuff anyway) has happened and Bill Gates is a f*cking c*nt after all
 
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Thurston said:
More functionality? Show me any Microsoft package with anywhere near the functionality I have on my MacBook and I'll apologise for calling you a bell-end.
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Functionality wise its a joke to compare the two. I'll give you the mac interface is simpler for novices and inability to install pretty much anything on earth means they are less likely to fuck up their machines causing stability and performance issues. Look at stuff like hyper v and iis included for messing with at home and professional capabilities like control with full suite of GPO and SCCM instead of shoddy plugins or god forbid a mac server make it obvious windows is a functional system for home and professional use rather than a toy or vanity item. That's before you look at the software ecosystem going back years.

But its not just windows. Hell not even primarily. Some Microsoft packages that do more than your macbook?
Visual Studio
Office 365
Azure
MSSQL Server
Exchange
Sharepoint
 
MattyM 09/109 said:
Functionality wise its a joke to compare the two. I'll give you the mac interface is simpler for novices and inability to install pretty much anything on earth means they are less likely to fuck up their machines causing stability and performance issues. Look at stuff like hyper v and iis included for messing with at home and professional capabilities like control with full suite of GPO and SCCM instead of shoddy plugins or god forbid a mac server make it obvious windows is a functional system for home and professional use rather than a toy or vanity item. That's before you look at the software ecosystem going back years.

But its not just windows. Hell not even primarily. Some Microsoft packages that do more than your macbook?
Visual Studio
Office 365
Azure
MSSQL Server
Exchange
Sharepoint
Click to expand...

1) A macbook is a personal hardware device so it would be more useful to compare it to a Surface and how it runs

2) Every single service they provide has a better alternative. Sharepoint is a mixed blessing at best.

3) They owe a great deal of their position to a time when there were a few things they did well and they used their position in the market to kill competition.

4) In 25 years the good operating systems they've produced are outnumbered by the shit ones. Windows 10 is like a shit unstable beta of Windows 7 that's been infected by all the worst parts of Windows 8. It has been inundated with updates most of which are to fix problems, including updates to fix problems in updates to fix problems. It's a f***ing shocking way to operate a service which is clearly geared to what they want to do with your data and market to you instead of what the user actually needs.

5) They're also massive ARSEHOLES to deal with in a business setting which is very revealing on what their attitude is to their customers
 
Cockney Mackem said:
1) A macbook is a personal hardware device so it would be more useful to compare it to a Surface and how it runs

2) Every single service they provide has a better alternative. Sharepoint is a mixed blessing at best.

3) They owe a great deal of their position to a time when there were a few things they did well and they used their position in the market to kill competition.

4) In 25 years the good operating systems they've produced are outnumbered by the shit ones. Windows 10 is like a shit unstable beta of Windows 7 that's been infected by all the worst parts of Windows 8. It has been inundated with updates most of which are to fix problems, including updates to fix problems in updates to fix problems. It's a f***ing shocking way to operate a service which is clearly geared to what they want to do with your data and market to you instead of what the user actually needs.

5) They're also massive ARSEHOLES to deal with in a business setting which is very revealing on what their attitude is to their customers
Click to expand...
If they fixed the bugs Windows 10 would be awesome.
 
Cockney Mackem said:
1) A macbook is a personal hardware device so it would be more useful to compare it to a Surface and how it runs

2) Every single service they provide has a better alternative. Sharepoint is a mixed blessing at best.

3) They owe a great deal of their position to a time when there were a few things they did well and they used their position in the market to kill competition.

4) In 25 years the good operating systems they've produced are outnumbered by the shit ones. Windows 10 is like a shit unstable beta of Windows 7 that's been infected by all the worst parts of Windows 8. It has been inundated with updates most of which are to fix problems, including updates to fix problems in updates to fix problems. It's a f***ing shocking way to operate a service which is clearly geared to what they want to do with your data and market to you instead of what the user actually needs.

5) They're also massive ARSEHOLES to deal with in a business setting which is very revealing on what their attitude is to their customers
Click to expand...

1. A Surface runs a lot more and is so much more open that to compare the two is at best unfair. The poster who called me "a bellend" just said to name any MS package that has more functionality than a macbook. All of those do.

2. I'm not sure of that. Office 365 is an outstanding mail platform, the fact its also got the most used suite of document editors thrown in too and skype4business means its so far ahead of any other saas servcie its unreal. My opinion of course, you may be aware of something better. Azure is basically playing against AWS (for now), I would say AWS for IaaS is ahead by a distance at the moment especially with the vsphere extensions, but for PaaS its another easy victory for MS. the model for auto scaling of web apps compared to EC is way ahead just as a starter. Sharepoint is tough because it represents a massive change in how people should work and requires a professional implemetation to leverage. With O365 and onedrive its really showing that microsf expects the future of storage to be sharepoint and/or other doc libraries. The idea of exposing networks shares and mapping drives and shit to users is defunct, they want everyone to start there machine, work out of sharepoint or a doc library itself and never be clickign through explorer to find shit. Its a big change in working practice but once you see it in use you see immediately why its better.

3. They built the best OS, best productivity suite and it was so far ahead it murdered the competition. Their competitors actually had to egt the courts involved to try to kerb it, but if anything it backfired as os and office teams were able to refocus. I would still say they produce the best OS and prodcutivity tools by a countryy mile.

4. Home OS I would agree, although the worst effort by MS is still miles ahead of the next best for functionality compatibility etc. Business wise every pro release has been an improvement over the previous, obviously a business evals hardware compatibility and performance before rollout so sidesteps a lot of the issues with early release OS on old hardware which plagues the home releases every time. Server side with the exception of 2008 R1 every single OS increment has been a vast improvement. I disagree on the updates too, they are effectively moving to your OS being almost SaaS which being from an IT background I hated until I suddenly didnt. I understand the desire to control and know whats going on but again and again and again MS have been in the news because of breaches in their OS security and every single time its been an unpatched OS, a bad configuration, and outright misunderstanding of what Windows does and doesnt do or a terrible update strategy.

5. If you are engaging MS Support and have a bad experience put it on your CSAT. I guarantee the persons team leader will be in touch that day. After years of performance metrics and shit it was all wiped out and replaced with "satisfaction is everything". Those satisfaction surveys really do mean whether someone is kept or fired and will be followed up. If its not happening talk to your account manager and people will be walked out the door.
 
MattyM 09/109 said:
1. A Surface runs a lot more and is so much more open that to compare the two is at best unfair. The poster who called me "a bellend" just said to name any MS package that has more functionality than a macbook. All of those do.

2. I'm not sure of that. Office 365 is an outstanding mail platform, the fact its also got the most used suite of document editors thrown in too and skype4business means its so far ahead of any other saas servcie its unreal. My opinion of course, you may be aware of something better. Azure is basically playing against AWS (for now), I would say AWS for IaaS is ahead by a distance at the moment especially with the vsphere extensions, but for PaaS its another easy victory for MS. the model for auto scaling of web apps compared to EC is way ahead just as a starter. Sharepoint is tough because it represents a massive change in how people should work and requires a professional implemetation to leverage. With O365 and onedrive its really showing that microsf expects the future of storage to be sharepoint and/or other doc libraries. The idea of exposing networks shares and mapping drives and shit to users is defunct, they want everyone to start there machine, work out of sharepoint or a doc library itself and never be clickign through explorer to find shit. Its a big change in working practice but once you see it in use you see immediately why its better.

3. They built the best OS, best productivity suite and it was so far ahead it murdered the competition. Their competitors actually had to egt the courts involved to try to kerb it, but if anything it backfired as os and office teams were able to refocus. I would still say they produce the best OS and prodcutivity tools by a countryy mile.

4. Home OS I would agree, although the worst effort by MS is still miles ahead of the next best for functionality compatibility etc. Business wise every pro release has been an improvement over the previous, obviously a business evals hardware compatibility and performance before rollout so sidesteps a lot of the issues with early release OS on old hardware which plagues the home releases every time. Server side with the exception of 2008 R1 every single OS increment has been a vast improvement. I disagree on the updates too, they are effectively moving to your OS being almost SaaS which being from an IT background I hated until I suddenly didnt. I understand the desire to control and know whats going on but again and again and again MS have been in the news because of breaches in their OS security and every single time its been an unpatched OS, a bad configuration, and outright misunderstanding of what Windows does and doesnt do or a terrible update strategy.

5. If you are engaging MS Support and have a bad experience put it on your CSAT. I guarantee the persons team leader will be in touch that day. After years of performance metrics and shit it was all wiped out and replaced with "satisfaction is everything". Those satisfaction surveys really do mean whether someone is kept or fired and will be followed up. If its not happening talk to your account manager and people will be walked out the door.
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I'm talking about an organisation to do business with in commercial and contract negotiations. However, in terms of online/forum support I haven't seen a Web page or MS staff response to users technical problem that was the slightest bit of use whatsoever.

MattyM 09/109 said:
1. A Surface runs a lot more and is so much more open that to compare the two is at best unfair. The poster who called me "a bellend" just said to name any MS package that has more functionality than a macbook. All of those do.

2. I'm not sure of that. Office 365 is an outstanding mail platform, the fact its also got the most used suite of document editors thrown in too and skype4business means its so far ahead of any other saas servcie its unreal. My opinion of course, you may be aware of something better. Azure is basically playing against AWS (for now), I would say AWS for IaaS is ahead by a distance at the moment especially with the vsphere extensions, but for PaaS its another easy victory for MS. the model for auto scaling of web apps compared to EC is way ahead just as a starter. Sharepoint is tough because it represents a massive change in how people should work and requires a professional implemetation to leverage. With O365 and onedrive its really showing that microsf expects the future of storage to be sharepoint and/or other doc libraries. The idea of exposing networks shares and mapping drives and shit to users is defunct, they want everyone to start there machine, work out of sharepoint or a doc library itself and never be clickign through explorer to find shit. Its a big change in working practice but once you see it in use you see immediately why its better.

3. They built the best OS, best productivity suite and it was so far ahead it murdered the competition. Their competitors actually had to egt the courts involved to try to kerb it, but if anything it backfired as os and office teams were able to refocus. I would still say they produce the best OS and prodcutivity tools by a countryy mile.

4. Home OS I would agree, although the worst effort by MS is still miles ahead of the next best for functionality compatibility etc. Business wise every pro release has been an improvement over the previous, obviously a business evals hardware compatibility and performance before rollout so sidesteps a lot of the issues with early release OS on old hardware which plagues the home releases every time. Server side with the exception of 2008 R1 every single OS increment has been a vast improvement. I disagree on the updates too, they are effectively moving to your OS being almost SaaS which being from an IT background I hated until I suddenly didnt. I understand the desire to control and know whats going on but again and again and again MS have been in the news because of breaches in their OS security and every single time its been an unpatched OS, a bad configuration, and outright misunderstanding of what Windows does and doesnt do or a terrible update strategy.

5. If you are engaging MS Support and have a bad experience put it on your CSAT. I guarantee the persons team leader will be in touch that day. After years of performance metrics and shit it was all wiped out and replaced with "satisfaction is everything". Those satisfaction surveys really do mean whether someone is kept or fired and will be followed up. If its not happening talk to your account manager and people will be walked out the door.
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And another thing. OneDrive is f***ing DOGSHIT
 
Cockney Mackem said:
I'm talking about an organisation to do business with in commercial and contract negotiations. However, in terms of online/forum support I haven't seen a Web page or MS staff response to users technical problem that was the slightest bit of use whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah trying to get technical support off them for free is not gonna end well. You need a support contract and you need to use incidents to get support, its their business model. Best bet for that is to hope someone trying to get a job or an mvp spots your post and responds, noone from inside MS is gonna do it. Support guys do have to write a number of technet articles a quarter so they might create something in response but wont actively engage with people for free.

Cockney Mackem said:
And another thing. OneDrive is f***ing DOGSHIT
Click to expand...

The personal one or the professional version? Its basically just a sharepoint library, the personal free one can be a bit minging for anything other than using to back up pictures on your phone or using as a sync point for your own documents so you can sync them up and down. But I find it entirely satisfactory for doing that. What are you trying to use it for?
 
MattyM 09/109 said:
Oh yeah trying to get technical support off them for free is not gonna end well. You need a support contract and you need to use incidents to get support, its their business model. Best bet for that is to hope someone trying to get a job or an mvp spots your post and responds, noone from inside MS is gonna do it. Support guys do have to write a number of technet articles a quarter so they might create something in response but wont actively engage with people for free.



The personal one or the professional version? Its basically just a sharepoint library, the personal free one can be a bit minging for anything other than using to back up pictures on your phone or using as a sync point for your own documents so you can sync them up and down. But I find it entirely satisfactory for doing that. What are you trying to use it for?
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As far as technical support goes, it's a fundamental challenge that a straightforward system as it's meant to be for personal use needs as much interaction for technical problems as it does. If they expect me to take out a support contract for a system which interacts with all the other software and with other hardware that gives them ample opportunity to say it's not their fault it's someone else's and on the kind of horrendous contract terms they offer to the biggest companies on earth let alone one single consumer, they can fuck off. The issues I've had just in the last few months include wiping out my printer settings, wiping out all my connections to passwords and streaming services, introducing a whole load of new functions apparently for the windows phone I don't have that have now pushed my disk usage to 99%, loss of search functionality, all my power/security etc settings defaulted. Paying them to support what they're doing to me would be like paying my dentist a monthly fee to kick my f***ing teeth out.

I have OneDrive personal and OneDrive for business. I use it almost exclusively to share docs across three devices so that a document e.g. Word that I edit on a tablet updates when I go to it on the laptop. What's going wrong with it is that almost every time I log on it has sync problems which mean I have to either re upload, sign in and out or reinstall, every single f***ing time. And the latest torrent of OneDrive updates has now broken the link between my laptop and the OneDrive for Business share I've got, and is asking me for a Library URL which took about an hour of googling to make head or tail of. It's f***ing shit.
 
Cockney Mackem said:
As far as technical support goes, it's a fundamental challenge that a straightforward system as it's meant to be for personal use needs as much interaction for technical problems as it does. If they expect me to take out a support contract for a system which interacts with all the other software and with other hardware that gives them ample opportunity to say it's not their fault it's someone else's and on the kind of horrendous contract terms they offer to the biggest companies on earth let alone one single consumer, they can fuck off. The issues I've had just in the last few months include wiping out my printer settings, wiping out all my connections to passwords and streaming services, introducing a whole load of new functions apparently for the windows phone I don't have that have now pushed my disk usage to 99%, loss of search functionality, all my power/security etc settings defaulted. Paying them to support what they're doing to me would be like paying my dentist a monthly fee to kick my f***ing teeth out.

I have OneDrive personal and OneDrive for business. I use it almost exclusively to share docs across three devices so that a document e.g. Word that I edit on a tablet updates when I go to it on the laptop. What's going wrong with it is that almost every time I log on it has sync problems which mean I have to either re upload, sign in and out or reinstall, every single f***ing time. And the latest torrent of OneDrive updates has now broken the link between my laptop and the OneDrive for Business share I've got, and is asking me for a Library URL which took about an hour of googling to make head or tail of. It's f***ing shit.
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I dont know what happened to that computer. You should put it in a fire and get a new one.
 
In other news, 21% of windows users are planning to buy a Mac next time, the main obstacle to that figure being higher is cost/available choice.

IBM has also reported a massive drop in support calls from its own staff since they offered macbooks as an option. 5% of macbook users call the helpdesk compared to 40% of windows users
 
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