Messi vs Best


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What do you mean a higher standard ? Just to help me understand could you say when you started watching football ? I think you might be surprised at how fit these guys were . All you are seeing now is not new . I once heard some amazing stories about Ray Pointer for example an ex Burnley player and how he kept fit in the summer .

Do you think that fitness levels have not increased after all these years, I mean you could compare it to 100m running, due to better training methods they have been able to achieve faster times. Ill admit however that I am not old enough to have witnessed the periods that you mention.
 
Honestly if they were both unknowns on trial today not a manager in the word would take best over messi.

A british manager would.

Matt Busby always said that the reason he put Bestie in the side so young was that he was the best defender of the ball at the club.
Meaning
If the team didn't have the ball, Bestie was brilliant at working his arse off to win it back.

Now thats British
 
I am old.enough to have seen Best play.
Back in the day, lots of defenders were cart horse thugs, Best ran rings around them cos he was quick an nimble.

Messi is miles better than Best ever was. Defenders are now fantastic athletes, yet Messi still makes them look useless on a regular basis.

Messi is also a true professional, dedicated to his craft. Best was an arsehole, who chucked it in his late twenties great waste of a phenomenal talent, but he liked the champagne lifestyle,footy interfered with this, so he gave up. Tosser of the first order imo.
 
Not really picking a side either way, but you need only look at how badly the players on both sides struggled out in Hong Kong at the Asia Cup on the pitch they played on. Best IMO would find it far easier to adapt to modern football than Messi would find it to adapt to the game back then. Not saying either is/was better but it was much harder back then in the conditions games were played in and with the equipment used to do what Best did. Back then it was all about raw natural ability and nowt else, where as today everything to do with performance, diet, lifestyle, coaching, training, equipment and pitches are all micro managed using science. You can't really make a valid comparison between the two as their respective eras are so vastly different.

Messi would be off after a knee high tackle after 30 miinutes probably never to be seen again. :lol:

Plus you have to remember Best was absolutely caned most of the time he played :lol:

He wouldn't though, as he'd be so physically superior to everybody else, and that's before you even think about his actual talent.
 
A british manager would.

Matt Busby always said that the reason he put Bestie in the side so young was that he was the best defender of the ball at the club.
Meaning
If the team didn't have the ball, Bestie was brilliant at working his arse off to win it back.

Now thats British

I don't think that is what he meant. He meant when Best had the ball he could hold onto it. Defenders could not get it off him which gave other man u players the chance to get in positions. They call it "holding up" now.
 
A british manager would.

Matt Busby always said that the reason he put Bestie in the side so young was that he was the best defender of the ball at the club.
Meaning
If the team didn't have the ball, Bestie was brilliant at working his arse off to win it back.

Now thats British
aye cos all foreigners are lazy :roll:
 
For what it is worth it is all about what you want a footballer to do on the field and how his skills bring you enjoyment and give you memories . For me I enjoy footballers with guile and vision . Messi is a great player but I have to say I enjoyed watching Best more and I saw him many times. He was a joy to watch simple as that . I was brought up on a diet of Puskas and Di Stefano and I still think these two were by far better footballers than Messi . Cruyff was majestic , Pele and the Brazilian team of 1970 were , in my opinion , the greatest set of foot ballers I have ever seen . Maradonna , not my cup of tea , simple power . As for the game being better now because of training methods , sports scientists etc .....utter tosh . I have seen some truely brilliant footballers who would walk into modern football . Remember the competition to succeed was far greater than it is now . 1930 `s for example , well before my time , but for many of the footballers then it was be good or the pit for life . some have commented on here about defenders not being as good say in the 60`s than there are now . Rubbish !!! Mackay for example was one of the greatest footballers I have ever seen . Please do not rubbish the memories of some of these players in the early 60`s there were some brilliant players . Greatest individual performances I ever saw were by Jonny Haynes , Jimmy Johnstone . Best ever .........Pele. My Dad who died fairly recently saw Messi . Ronaldo , etc ect and he thought they were wonderful players but he stuck by his guns and said they were simply not on the same level as Puskas .

If the best teams from nowadays played the best teams from the 60s or 70s, the modern team would annihilate them. To argue any differently shows stubbornness, which admittedly I would expect from the older generation as they grew up watching that football, but it's true.

It's not a slight on the past, it's just that things have moved on physically and those from the 60s/70s would be at a disadvantage.
 
Let's be honest, outwith the fans of the teams he played with, how often did anyone actually watch George Best? Games were rarely televised in those days, and live games were even rarer. Added to that, Northern Ireland never reached the finals of any major tournaments during Best's, er, best days.

Today, you can watch every minute of every game Messi plays. It's easier to make an overall judgement. Like Pele, the legend of George Best sometimes outweighs the reality.

These players were clearly great players, but it's very difficult to make a direct comparison to players nowadays given the difference in how often you were able to watch them.

comparisons are obviously flawed unless they played against each other or on the same pitch

getting twittchie now

Bestie was all balance, discuise when on the ball,,excelleration,skillfull dribbler, but suprisingly hard to knock off the ball

Messi for me a bit stronger, a bit stronger off the mark................but nowhere near Georgie for entertainment value

Northern Ireland never reached the heights but look online to see what what he did to an England goalkeeper and get a reality check
 
Best 179 goals in 470 games
Messi 306 goals in 370 games (not sure if that's even up to date).

Clearly this is not a true picture to compare the two however at the age of 26 messi still has plenty more to go on to achieve and with that goal scoring ratio must be considered in the bracket of the very best to have ever graced the game.

Whilst I can't really comment on best to a great extent or the level of defending during that era, if players were as physical as suggested then whilst the risk of injury is high I would suspect that beating these players was easier in best's era specifically if defenders were jumping in, as its easier to beat a player who commits themselves compared to a player who stands the player up or a team who tactically nullifies a player something of which is done more I suspect in modern day football.

The most skilful player I have ever seen is ronaldinhio therefore skill alone does not make you the best ever.
 
Best 179 goals in 470 games
Messi 306 goals in 370 games (not sure if that's even up to date).

Clearly this is not a true picture to compare the two however at the age of 26 messi still has plenty more to go on to achieve and with that goal scoring ratio must be considered in the bracket of the very best to have ever graced the game.

Whilst I can't really comment on best to a great extent or the level of defending during that era, if players were as physical as suggested then whilst the risk of injury is high I would suspect that beating these players was easier in best's era specifically if defenders were jumping in, as its easier to beat a player who commits themselves compared to a player who stands the player up or a team who tactically nullifies a player something of which is done more I suspect in modern day football.

The most skilful player I have ever seen is ronaldinhio therefore skill alone does not make you the best ever.

Some good points. The Ronaldinho reference is very relevant. He could have been the best of all time imo, but his lifestyle contributed to an early decline and he has fallen short of what he could have been. He probably hit a lot of the same highs that Messi has, but didn't sustain them for long enough. I suspect Best was the same.

The question is, whether you judge a player over a 15 year period of what their career should be, over their actual career, over their prime, over their best season, or over their defining moments in the game. Those who rate Best so highly ignore the fact that he was finished at 26, and focus more on brilliant moments in his career.

I'm sure Best was unbelievably exciting and miles ahead of his time, but the standard of football was a lot more varied back then imo. You still had great players and some defenders were excellent too, but these days, you have to be a supreme athlete to play at the top. Defenders are faster and stronger. Even due to things like video's, opponents probably watch Messi in great detail before they play him, so they are far more aware of what he is going to do - and they still can't stop him. With Best, there would have been a greater element of unknown, which probably also added to the excitement of the fans as well.
 
Best 179 goals in 470 games
Messi 306 goals in 370 games (not sure if that's even up to date).

Clearly this is not a true picture to compare the two however at the age of 26 messi still has plenty more to go on to achieve and with that goal scoring ratio must be considered in the bracket of the very best to have ever graced the game.

Whilst I can't really comment on best to a great extent or the level of defending during that era, if players were as physical as suggested then whilst the risk of injury is high I would suspect that beating these players was easier in best's era specifically if defenders were jumping in, as its easier to beat a player who commits themselves compared to a player who stands the player up or a team who tactically nullifies a player something of which is done more I suspect in modern day football.

The most skilful player I have ever seen is ronaldinhio therefore skill alone does not make you the best ever.
Defenders jumping in?? Unbelievable perception as though all the defenders around then were simpletons.
So you never saw Bobby Moore then?
 
Defenders jumping in?? Unbelievable perception as though all the defenders around then were simpletons.
So you never saw Bobby Moore then?

Like I said I can't really judge the level of defending at the time as i was simply not around to see but from the opinion of some on here who were around, including general commentary on the treatment of players of that era and the reference that messi would not be able to handle the rough treatment that Best received would suggest defenders jumping in or not defending as you would see in the modern game. I've only really seen highlights and the odd game of football in 60's and 70's and I'd argue that defenders were more likely to jump into challenges or commit themselves in the period than they do today.

For the record I've seen very little of Bobby Moore other than the highlights of his best moments, very much like youtube clips of footballers today. I'm sure he was/is one the best defenders to have played the game as this appears to be a common held view of many professionals and spectators, however he is only one example.

Some good points. The Ronaldinho reference is very relevant. He could have been the best of all time imo, but his lifestyle contributed to an early decline and he has fallen short of what he could have been. He probably hit a lot of the same highs that Messi has, but didn't sustain them for long enough. I suspect Best was the same.

The question is, whether you judge a player over a 15 year period of what their career should be, over their actual career, over their prime, over their best season, or over their defining moments in the game. Those who rate Best so highly ignore the fact that he was finished at 26, and focus more on brilliant moments in his career.

I'm sure Best was unbelievably exciting and miles ahead of his time, but the standard of football was a lot more varied back then imo. You still had great players and some defenders were excellent too, but these days, you have to be a supreme athlete to play at the top. Defenders are faster and stronger. Even due to things like video's, opponents probably watch Messi in great detail before they play him, so they are far more aware of what he is going to do - and they still can't stop him. With Best, there would have been a greater element of unknown, which probably also added to the excitement of the fans as well.

I don't think I've ever seen a player do what he could do with a ball in a competitive game.
 
If the best teams from nowadays played the best teams from the 60s or 70s, the modern team would annihilate them. To argue any differently shows stubbornness, which admittedly I would expect from the older generation as they grew up watching that football, but it's true.

It's not a slight on the past, it's just that things have moved on physically and those from the 60s/70s would be at a disadvantage.

I respect your opinion but completely disagree . Stubborness ???? I had the pleasure and I mean pleasure of watching some of the greatest players who have graced football grounds .I think deeply about the game . I enjoy modern football but Modern football in general lacks the guille and flair which was evidednt in the game .I find your statement that " they would annihilate " them somewhat ridiculous . As for fitness footballers were very fit don't be fooled by sports scientists etc . I think of Sunderland as appoint in case .....example Mulhall was the fastest with a ball I have ever seen there is nobody on the books now who would come near him for pace , George Herd was a fitness fanatic . I watched Chelsea train in Wales c 1965 pre season if these blokes were not super fit then I am a Dutchman . I would conclude by sayng that many modern day footballers do not have control of a football that some of the greatest of earlier years had and because of their social status , financial rewards do not possess the hunger nor the need to be the best they could be . I hhe pleasure of interviewing many former first division players from the 1930s . Wonderful down to earth blokes but they enlightened me as to the work they put in to rise to that level .
 
I'm having a discussion with a lad at work about who is better he is pro messi and think he's the best player ever I strongly disagree as I think George best was doing what messi does now and more while having people trying to
Kick him up a height and I think there have been probably
10 players in the history of the game better than messi what do you lads reckon?

Put the crack pipe down mate

I seen footage of both playing not a great deal
Due to when they played but enough to formulate a solid opinion on them.

Have a word man will you?

Youve seen footage :lol::lol:

Best 179 goals in 470 games
Messi 306 goals in 370 games (not sure if that's even up to date).

Clearly this is not a true picture to compare the two however at the age of 26 messi still has plenty more to go on to achieve and with that goal scoring ratio must be considered in the bracket of the very best to have ever graced the game.

Whilst I can't really comment on best to a great extent or the level of defending during that era, if players were as physical as suggested then whilst the risk of injury is high I would suspect that beating these players was easier in best's era specifically if defenders were jumping in, as its easier to beat a player who commits themselves compared to a player who stands the player up or a team who tactically nullifies a player something of which is done more I suspect in modern day football.

The most skilful player I have ever seen is ronaldinhio therefore skill alone does not make you the best ever.

Best played 709 games and scored 253 goals. Looking at that i can definitely see why people would think hes better than messi like :lol::lol:
 
I respect your opinion but completely disagree . Stubborness ???? I had the pleasure and I mean pleasure of watching some of the greatest players who have graced football grounds .I think deeply about the game . I enjoy modern football but Modern football in general lacks the guille and flair which was evidednt in the game .I find your statement that " they would annihilate " them somewhat ridiculous . As for fitness footballers were very fit don't be fooled by sports scientists etc . I think of Sunderland as appoint in case .....example Mulhall was the fastest with a ball I have ever seen there is nobody on the books now who would come near him for pace , George Herd was a fitness fanatic . I watched Chelsea train in Wales c 1965 pre season if these blokes were not super fit then I am a Dutchman . I would conclude by sayng that many modern day footballers do not have control of a football that some of the greatest of earlier years had and because of their social status , financial rewards do not possess the hunger nor the need to be the best they could be . I hhe pleasure of interviewing many former first division players from the 1930s . Wonderful down to earth blokes but they enlightened me as to the work they put in to rise to that level .

I respect your opinion mate, but come off it. I'm not knocking the technical ability of players in the past. In fact, to play on the pitches they did to the technical standard they did, I've no doubt they'd look amazing technically on a pitch nowadays.

However, basic physical development tells you that a side from the 1970s, however good, would simply not be able to compete with a side from the modern day. It's like arguing that a sprinter from the 1970s was faster than Usain Bolt, only we know for a fact this isn't true as times are recorded.

I'm sorry mate, but modern day Barcelona (for example) would murder the Brazil 1970 side if they both played each other in their peak. Even if they were technically inferior.

You talk about guile and flair and that's fine, I'm not doubting the best players had that in abundance. Yes, Mulhall may have been lightning with a ball at his feet at the time, but throw him into the game now and he wouldn't be (insert random 77 year old joke here). That's what some people fail to grasp (unless Mulhall was some kind of freak, if so he should have been a sprinter).
 
Put the crack pipe down mate

Have a word man will you?

Youve seen footage :lol::lol:

Best played 709 games and scored 253 goals. Looking at that i can definitely see why people would think hes better than messi like :lol::lol:

Sorry should have said that the figures i had given were best's record for Manchester utd and messi's for Barcelona to try and give a fair reflection of each over a similar period.
 
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For what it is worth it is all about what you want a footballer to do on the field and how his skills bring you enjoyment and give you memories . For me I enjoy footballers with guile and vision . Messi is a great player but I have to say I enjoyed watching Best more and I saw him many times. He was a joy to watch simple as that . I was brought up on a diet of Puskas and Di Stefano and I still think these two were by far better footballers than Messi . Cruyff was majestic , Pele and the Brazilian team of 1970 were , in my opinion , the greatest set of foot ballers I have ever seen . Maradonna , not my cup of tea , simple power . As for the game being better now because of training methods , sports scientists etc .....utter tosh . I have seen some truely brilliant footballers who would walk into modern football . Remember the competition to succeed was far greater than it is now . 1930 `s for example , well before my time , but for many of the footballers then it was be good or the pit for life . some have commented on here about defenders not being as good say in the 60`s than there are now . Rubbish !!! Mackay for example was one of the greatest footballers I have ever seen . Please do not rubbish the memories of some of these players in the early 60`s there were some brilliant players . Greatest individual performances I ever saw were by Jonny Haynes , Jimmy Johnstone . Best ever .........Pele. My Dad who died fairly recently saw Messi . Ronaldo , etc ect and he thought they were wonderful players but he stuck by his guns and said they were simply not on the same level as Puskas .

And how many times did you see them play and I mean a entire 90 minutes live not edited highlights?

Messi is not even the best of his generation, ronaldo is better imho.

Neither was Best
 
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