Making a Murderer (Netflix)


Very interesting read and she's just posting stuff in the last few hours so with all the publicity now flying about with the case this will surely be picked up and elved into much more thoroughly over the coming weeks/ months.
It seems to tie in well to answer a lot of the questions and she'd posted most of this stuff on a blog long before this Netflix documentary.
With regards to the barn the German didn't burn it down. It was burnt down a couple of days after her info was released on the blog. Yet more very coincidental/ opportunistic occurrences to destroy evidence
 
Just finished episode 3.
That Dassey interview was horrendous, total manipulation. Surely that interview footage would have been used during the trial???
 
Just finished episode 3.
That Dassey interview was horrendous, total manipulation. Surely that interview footage would have been used during the trial???

There's more on the interviews in Ep 4 & 5 mate. And more on Dassey.

The lad didn't know what day of the week it was never mind owt else.
 
There's more on the interviews in Ep 4 & 5 mate. And more on Dassey.

The lad didn't know what day of the week it was never mind owt else.

Looking forward to watch more.

You not think in The telephone audio clips we hear (I've only just finished ep 3) Avery is remarkably calm and almost acceptant of his fate to be innocent?

Maybe he's given up & realises he can't beat the system. I would have thought his frustration, if innocent would be beyond control
 
Looking forward to watch more.

You not think in The telephone audio clips we hear (I've only just finished ep 3) Avery is remarkably calm and almost acceptant of his fate to be innocent?

Maybe he's given up & realises he can't beat the system. I would have thought his frustration, if innocent would be beyond control
Nothing adds up with any of it but you've also got to take the IQ levels into consideration and there was more inbreeding there than Crook
 
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f***ing hell, that bit in the trial with the notes taken about the bullet in the garage

Don't want to go into detail as I don't want to spoil it
 
I saw the blog thing the other day but this reddit thread has some 'interesting' information from the user primak who is supposedly the ex wife. The theories as to what could have happened are quite plausible if there is corruption involved. By the looks of things, there's even a picture of the bloke as there is a link to his new lasses Facebook with his self inflicted burn scar.

Her posts are here with all the posts she's has replied back too that contain a lot of info. If you scroll down it will load older ones.

https://www.reddit.com/user/primak

This post from yesterday says she got accused of a crime when she started digging around for more info.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3y9gpt/burning_of_the_body/cybpk9w

I had spoken to Laura Nirider in 2011 but she came to a dead end when Jacobs denied meeting with me. I tried contacting Buting, but his response was yes, your husband's name did come up in a police report and I was told you suspected him, but the police never pursued any investigation. I tried contacting Avery's previous state appointed public defender and she hung up on me mid sentence and told me she didn't have time for it. I have never tried contacting the Averys because I did not want to bother them. I even considered trying to write to Steve over all these years and I even tried to get someone else to do it, but everybody to scared. I am also scared. I left WI in Feb. 2006 and went back in Oct. 2010 after I bought a house there and I intended to dig more into this. After I started digging around I got accused of a crime and they took all of my dogs away, over 25K worth of German Shepherds and the ONE person I know in WI and who knew me and the only person there I told about this...believes it is because they want me to shut up.
:eek::eek:

All her posts have been deleted.
Wished I'd saved them all now
Fascinating stuff
 
:eek::eek:

All her posts have been deleted.
Wished I'd saved them all now
Fascinating stuff
Please consider this only as a theory with a very critical eye and please do let me know your thoughts. However, DO NOT USE ANY OF THIS INFORMATION TO HARASS OR BADGER ANYONE INVOLVED!! I've put this together because the logical question that would need to be answered if SA is indeed innocent is "if not SA, then who?" I'm not certain of SA's innocence, but I feel that TH's family deserves a better answer than what was presented at trial.

Big ups to u/EmilyLouiseChurch1 for finding the court records to corroborate some facts in http://www.convolutedbrian.com/an-alternative.html and u/AmpLee for reaching out to the citizen.

I've gone ahead and pulled together some additional info to support an alternate theory of the crime. It fits fairly well with the facts that were presented during the trial, but relies heavily on the claims that "the citizen" from Brian's blog post makes. However, if they are true, they present a plausible version of events that makes every bit as much sense as the nonsense to which Brendan Dassey "confessed".

Facts and less disputed evidence from trial:

Manitowoc County was on the hook for $36 million if they were found liable in SA's civil suit because insurers were balking on payment given the alleged misconduct of the DA and sheriff's office

On November 2nd, a third party deleted voice messages from TH's voicemail

On November 3rd, a sheriff's deputy calls in TH's plates with a vehicle description

TH was killed and her body burned between 10/31 and 11/5

TH's Rav 4 was found on SA's lot 11/5

TH's remains were found in two or three piles, two relatively close to SA's trailer and another roughly 2,000 ft SW of the pit in the quarry though it’s unclear that they certainly belonged to TH

TH's skull had what appeared to the forensic examiner to be 2 .22 bullet holes

Discussion of an alternative story

I have heard from "the citizen" in Brian's blog story, and she claims that she was his original source. I have no reason to believe or disbelieve her, but I am confident that she is the person listed in the court documents that u/EmilyLouiseChurch1 found. I will be sure to call out what I've corroborated separately (like this) from now on. She provides the following version of events somewhat consistent with what she told Brian (I can discuss privately why I’m confident this person is indeed the citizen):

The week of October 31st 2015, the citizen’s husband at the time, now ex-, "the husband", was acting strangely, cutting the tags from her clothing and cutting her clothing apart. Their relationship became strained so she rented a place in Maribel, WI to separate. The property is about 5 miles from Avery Auto Salvage, and is located along the route Teresa would have taken to get home to St. John from SA's (I've verified that court docs for the citizen did list a location along this route): http://**Non GDPR compliant third party tracking link removed**/1mgPseV

On the 6th, the husband was taken into custody after a dispute with the citizen after his behavior became increasingly erratic (verified with court documents). The citizen shared that after that time, her dogs kept finding bones that the citizen believed to be human, as well as a pair of underwear, and a tool kit with a mason hammer with flicks of blood on it (in a police report filed after a complaint was made by the citizen). The underwear and tools were turned into the police (acknowledged in what looks like a genuine police report by the officer recording her complaint).

Her theory is that TH was drawn to the property because it had a "for rent" sign on it and stopped for more information, perhaps to photograph the property (the property's tax assessment lists a third party owner as of 2013 -- it appears to indeed be a rental property). The husband then killed TH by strangulation and with the mason hammer, put her body in the Rav 4, and parked the Rav 4 in the barn before burning her body on November 2nd.

The husband was held after his arrest on November 6th until January, at which point he was released (confirmed with court documents), then re-arrested almost immediately after getting into another dispute with the citizen. His next release was on March 2nd, the day after Brandon Dassey's confession when Dassey was first arrested with the stipulation that he check in with the Sheriff's office daily (again all confirmed this with court documents). According to the citizen, the husband was held in psychiatric facilities during some of his stay with the county.

What is not articulated above, but not difficult to guess, is how the Rav 4 and remains got onto SA's property.

A relatively simple hypothesis: the plate query on the 3rd resulted when the sheriff's deputy found the Rav 4 along with the remains of TH's body. One or more officers worked on moving the car to SA's lot before the 5th and relocated TH's remains to their final location.

The key was found later than the blood in the Rav 4 because the police had access to the Rav 4 earlier than SA's trailer because they had the Rav 4 before it was found, and so the blood was present before the key was found. The bullet was tampered with as the defense claims.

Interesting developments after the husband’s release: both the citizen and the husband moved to Oregon (they appear in an Oregon newspaper), but according to the citizen, the husband was deported in 2009. At that point, the citizen moves back to Wisconsin and starts digging around to find out what happened and why the husband wasn’t arrested, etc. During this time, she gets in touch with convoluted Brian, and Brian posts her story to his blog. Shortly after Brian posts his blog on June 23rd, the out-building(s) in which the Rav 4 was allegedly hidden, and where the murder allegedly took place, were burned down. (I couldn’t confirm they were burned down, but if you find the address, check out the street view vs. the aerial view. The street view date is October 2008 and the out buildings are still there, and aerial from 2015 doesn’t show them…super creepy).

The citizen begins having trouble with local law enforcement, culminating in her arrest for animal cruelty in 2013. She currently has a warrant out for her arrest by the Manitowoc Sheriff's department (both verified with court documents), though she since moved out of state. The citizen also produced links to Facebook profiles for the husband. Looks like he's living abroad still, though not in his native country.

A caveat to all: this whole story is about the citizen's now ex-husband. I wouldn't accuse an ex of killing somebody no matter how it ended, but I'm not the citizen, so certainly consider the alternative story of the crime with a grain of salt. That being said, everything she does say seems to check out generally and the husband, if she is telling the truth, could be the answer to “if not SA, then who?”

Also, a couple of questions I haven’t seen elsewhere:

Where were the rest of TH’s keys? Who goes out with only a car key?

I found a source that says that cremation requires 90 minutes at 1600 - 1800 C, but an outdoor fire would surely be cooler. TH’s body would have needed much longer than the 7-9 time frame given by the DA no? (http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/E-Book/injuries/thermal-injuries)

I think the German may have had the key in his pocket when arrested by Manitowoc county sheriff in the early morning hours on Nov. 6, 2005. Jason Orth was first to go on the scene and also transported him to the jail as stated in the report. Orth was the one guarding the vehicle after Pam Sturm found it.

I think this for several reasons....the timing of the key and Orth being the one who transported him. Secondly, I had recently purchased a red Dodge Neon on a loan a couple of months earlier. I had wanted to buy a Jeep Liberty because of my dogs, but could not get financed for it. The German asked me during that same time period of Oct. 31-Nov. 5 if I would be interested in buying an SUV vehicle that was not a Jeep Liberty, but similar in type. He stated he had seen one for sale along the road in that area of Maribel. I was angry, since I was the only one employed and had just purchased the Neon and told him there was no way I could afford another vehicle and what was he thinking, etc.

Previously, when I married him in 1999, I owned a dark green Dodge Neon that was a lemon. He of course, knew this since he had seen and experienced the car always breaking down. So he said....I know you don't like green because of your old car, but this SUV is green, sort of blue green.

At that time I was not connecting the dots. I did not know the area at all and was really not even aware of the missing woman. I was only angry that he was suggesting I would buy yet another vehicle when he would not even get a job. It was much later that it seemed very suspicious.
 
The most recent info I have is the German is living in Germany in a town called Ratzeburg. I have this info from a photo of his car he posted to skype a few months ago and the license plate on the car is clearly visible. In Germany, all license plates have a code indicating the town of residence.

Also, he did not cut the labels out of my clothing back in 2005, but sometime between Oct. 31, 2005 - Nov. 5, 2005 he cut every piece of my clothing, including shoes, handbags, underwear with a sharp object and made holes/slits in everything, then hid all in a huge haystack in one barn in Maribel.

I have a copy of the new report of when the barn burned down, on July 6, 2009 about 2 weeks after the story was published on Convoluted Brian. It was a huge structure, L shaped with a separate horse stable, etc. I also have a printed aerial view I saved.

I actually told my story to Convoluted Brian back in 2007 and have the original emails proving that. He waited 2 years to publish it.

The German was NOT yet my ex when I first suspected him in 2005 when I found some suspicious items on the Maribel property.

I have a different theory of how the vehicle and bones got on Avery's property. I have no proof, it is only a theory, if anyone would like to hear it.

i assure you, I am quite mentally sound. I have never been diagnosed with any mental disorder. The people on the dog boards were angry about me complaining about a sick dog I purchased from Alpine K9. Those people do not know me and have never met me or spoken to me in person, not even the man I bought the dog from. He is in Arizona and I paid to have the dog shipped to me in PA. Those people are friends of his or other breeders who also sold sick dogs to people and were defending him against my complaints. I have the vet records for that dog.

yes, I have a news article and the fire is also listed in barn fires where animals died. It burned on July 6, 2009 starting at 9:21 pm and was not put out until 3:30 am July 7, 2009. I found this out because in 2010 I moved back to WI and bought a house in Waupaca county and shared my suspicions with ONE person there who was willing to drive out to that property with me in 2011....then we found out after looking it up that the barns were all gone. If you have an email I will send you the article and you can research it yourself. I do not know the paper the article was in, but as I said, it is also in a fire report that is compiled nationwide for barn fires where animals died. I found it there as well and someone in the Maribel fire dept. could also confirm.

I met him in Germany in 1999 when I was there to work and study. I have never met or spoken with any of the Averys. He followed me out west after someone in Manitowoc county apparently told him where I had gone. He was staying in some place in Green Bay paid for by the county after his release. He took a Greyhound bus to Portland Oregon in May 2006 and knew exactly where I was. I called Griesbach to complain and he acted dumb and said they could not stop him from going where he wanted. Although, I have it in black and white that immigration had a detainer on him and were to pick him up for deportation after Manitowoc county was finished with him. Orth wrote it in the report. Somehow, that never happened. Griesbach had told me they were trying to have him deported but were having no luck. i do not believe this now because it states in the report that Orth faxed the detainer from ICE to the jail and they were to hold him for immigration to pick up. He was finally deported again in 2009, picked up in PA and held in detention in TX until 2009 because he was appealing his deportation.
 
:eek::eek:

All her posts have been deleted.
Wished I'd saved them all now
Fascinating stuff

Just went to get an update on that Reddit thread and noticed they were all removed, very strange. :eek:

The last message by the Reddit user

primak 1 point 12 minutes ago

Look, this was a very bad idea for me to go on this board. I will not be answering any more questions here because too many people are confusing facts or adding things to them. What I maintain is I have police reports proving I reported what I found back in 2005-2006. I have emails proving I contacted Brian McCorkle in 2007. I have emails proving Laura Nirider contacted me in 2011. I have proof someone on the dog message boards began trailing me in 2011. I have proof I do not even know those people on the dog boards, they never met me or spoke with me. I have proof Alpine K9 sold me a sick dog and I have the original BBB complaint I filed against that breeder in 2010.

You will not find anything unusual or remarkable about me or my life that is not connected with the time period I knew the German husband. You will not find any customers complaining about any dog they purchased from me. You can look in the entire USA and beyond and you will find no complaints about me regarding any animals until in WI after I started digging around for more records from Manitowoc county, WI in 2012 when to my surprise, Manitowoc claimed I never spoke to Det. Dennis Jacobs back in January 2006 regarding my husband's behavior and the items I found in Maribel.

It was a mistake that AmpLee I believe it was, convinced me to post here. I thought maybe someone could figure this out and it would be of some help. I want no publicity.

To the German person here who commented on "der Schuss kann auch nach hinten gehen" this means what you do can backfire. That was said when after seeing the German man post on Facebook that he is marrying the Thai woman, I sent him a message asking for please to have my divorce decree and saying if I do not get it, I will call the German court. I have never been able to find an address for him to divorce him. Why would asking him for that backfire on me? I am not the person marrying someone else. He since deleted the Facebook posts about the wedding with the Thai woman or set them to friends only.

Since law enforcement did not care at the time and the lawyers did not pursue any of this, there is nothing I can do. I have done more than what I needed. I did not have to do anything. It has already cost me too much in terms of my personal safety and reputation. I am done with it. Maybe someone else will come forward or maybe Avery and Dassey did it, I do not know.
 
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So why would he put her in the boot of the car? Why leave a car with her blood on intact?

Too many inconsistences isn't there....but still not 100% sure myself tbh.

Spoiler potentially..

But what about his face when he rang the car plate in and stated thee year? For me, that told me a story..
 
:eek::eek:

All her posts have been deleted.
Wished I'd saved them all now
Fascinating stuff

Hmmmm, is it because the info will be going to someone who can actually do something with it? I speed read a lot of the page and it's in my offline cache ;)

I've just been reading snippets of this thread from 2005 on websleuths and some back then were questioning the key in the bedroom. The last page has a link to a new thread but you have to be a member to see it!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Teresa-Marie-Halbach-25-Manitowoc-31-Oct-2005

Look at some of the wrongful convictions here ib the USA as there are a few longer than the 18 years Avery served and some executed! :eek:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_in_the_United_States

This one for example as the bloke was in jail 27 years until DNA got him exonerated. There is summit mentioned that he get $40K for each year in the State of Ohio in jail so just ower $1m. f***ing hell, $1m for 27 years in jail is no compensation!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Towler

Or this poor bloke who had his 7 kids murdered by his neighbour using poison yet he spent 21 years in jail for it!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Richardson

And this one, which is similar to Dassey, tells of another kid being coerced by the cops ending up with the 2 blokes being wrongfully convicted for 39 years! (serving 26 years in jail and rest on parole)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Jackson_and_Wiley_Bridgeman
 
His comment about him guessing like he did for his homework... just so sad
It was devastatingly sad. How anybody could watch the police interview with himand not see them leading him into what they wanted to hear, telling him that if he said what they wanted to hear 'it would all be ok', beggars belief. There must simply be a massive majority of quite stupid people in Manitowoc county, like, actually of very low iq. Even the prosecutors need an iq test. Dunno how they can sleep at night, unless they are really thick.
 
Colburn & Lenk both seem to be hiding something. Colburn calling in the number plate was very strange.


Makes sense if you read the bit about the German. His wife called the police and they attended the house where he was, and possibly the car was, at just the time he called in the plate. They found the car and the body and decided then to begin the fit up
 
Colburn & Lenk both seem to be hiding something. Colburn calling in the number plate was very strange.

Fairly sure they got the Boyfriend and brother involved in it some how as well. They definitely knew something, even if they had only been told that they should focus their efforts on Avery's property. The woman found the Rav 4 too quickly, and explained it as 'God showing her the way'. Definitely think the coppers told them where they should be looking and who they should blame. The sad thing is, their sister's/gf's killer is still out there going unpunished.
 

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