Making a Murderer (Netflix)


I think Avery is a monster who is trading on is past faulty convition. The docco is clearly slanted towards the defense. How else would they have got years worth of interview footage? The key for me is the level of the plant claims. When I took a step back after being initially disgusted, it just didn't stack up. We have to believe someone waited for her after she left his house (he initially denied she ever visited when police came), killed her, burned her body, planted some bones, a jean stud and a tooth in his burn pit, a palm pilot and mobile in his burn barrell, her car in his property, his blood inside it, his sweat under the bonnet (Dassey told the police he helped him move the car and Avery removed a battery cable, which was why they checked), and made multiple calls withholding their number from his mobile that day, and one after her murder without using the feature. Also, she had previous with him, and he bought shackles a week before her murder.

Proving the murder didn't happen in the house proves nothing. He could've done it anywhere. I think the car key is bollocks and the cops are guilty of sexing it up to make sure they got him a second time around, which has thrown the whole thing in doubt.

What concerns me is so many are making their mind up with 'Trial by documentary'. I feel sorry for the poor women's family and the babyish accusations against her brother.
 
I think Avery is a monster who is trading on is past faulty convition. The docco is clearly slanted towards the defense. How else would they have got years worth of interview footage? The key for me is the level of the plant claims. When I took a step back after being initially disgusted, it just didn't stack up. We have to believe someone waited for her after she left his house (he initially denied she ever visited when police came), killed her, burned her body, planted some bones, a jean stud and a tooth in his burn pit, a palm pilot and mobile in his burn barrell, her car in his property, his blood inside it, his sweat under the bonnet (Dassey told the police he helped him move the car and Avery removed a battery cable, which was why they checked), and made multiple calls withholding their number from his mobile that day, and one after her murder without using the feature. Also, she had previous with him, and he bought shackles a week before her murder.
Proving the murder didn't happen in the house proves nothing. He could've done it anywhere. I think the car key is bollocks and the cops are guilty of sexing it up to make sure they got him a second time around, which has thrown the whole thing in doubt.


What concerns me is so many are making their mind up with 'Trial by documentary'. I feel sorry for the poor women's family and the babyish accusations against her brother.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
M
I think Avery is a monster who is trading on is past faulty convition. The docco is clearly slanted towards the defense. How else would they have got years worth of interview footage? The key for me is the level of the plant claims. When I took a step back after being initially disgusted, it just didn't stack up. We have to believe someone waited for her after she left his house (he initially denied she ever visited when police came), killed her, burned her body, planted some bones, a jean stud and a tooth in his burn pit, a palm pilot and mobile in his burn barrell, her car in his property, his blood inside it, his sweat under the bonnet (Dassey told the police he helped him move the car and Avery removed a battery cable, which was why they checked), and made multiple calls withholding their number from his mobile that day, and one after her murder without using the feature. Also, she had previous with him, and he bought shackles a week before her murder.

Proving the murder didn't happen in the house proves nothing. He could've done it anywhere. I think the car key is bollocks and the cops are guilty of sexing it up to make sure they got him a second time around, which has thrown the whole thing in doubt.

What concerns me is so many are making their mind up with 'Trial by documentary'. I feel sorry for the poor women's family and the babyish accusations against her brother.
Morning ken!
 
I also reckon there's a decent chance he did it - the documentary is strongly weighted towards manipulating our reponse in this way. What I can't believe is he went down for it - the inconsistencies in the case should have been enough to swing it in his favour. Even if you had a hunch he was guilty I can't see how you could assume it beyond reasonable doubt.
 
Interesting to see how this would have been handled in the UK. I suspect, given the apparent paucity of actual evidence, these cases might have been laughed out of court.
 
Interesting to see how this would have been handled in the UK. I suspect, given the apparent paucity of actual evidence, these cases might have been laughed out of court.
In a country where trump is even an option for president anything is possible. The mad bastards that they are
 
Just finished watching this last night , absolutely shocking to watch.
My thoughts
We'll never know for sure who killed her
A lot of the evidence was planted / manipulated by some people because they genuinely thought he was guilty and by some because of the law suit
Her brother knows that the car was planted , he helped with that and possibly the phone messages and this is why he looks so bloody smug all the time .
One murder victim , two trials , two different murder scenes , no blood or dna from her .
The trials should have been held elsewhere given the history .
Brendan, I just can't get my head round what they've done to him - that utter skinny little ginger b@st@rd lawyer .
What really should happen is that both should have a retrial in another part of the states with a jury that have no connection to that area whatsoever.
Some of the stuff that went on was like those trashy films about hick town America that they used to make and that Kratz press conference :eek: it was like a cheap work of fiction , utterly laughable if it wasn't in deadly earnest .
 
Just finished watching this last night , absolutely shocking to watch.
My thoughts
We'll never know for sure who killed her
A lot of the evidence was planted / manipulated by some people because they genuinely thought he was guilty and by some because of the law suit
Her brother knows that the car was planted , he helped with that and possibly the phone messages and this is why he looks so bloody smug all the time .
One murder victim , two trials , two different murder scenes , no blood or dna from her .
The trials should have been held elsewhere given the history .
Brendan, I just can't get my head round what they've done to him - that utter skinny little ginger b@st@rd lawyer .
What really should happen is that both should have a retrial in another part of the states with a jury that have no connection to that area whatsoever.
Some of the stuff that went on was like those trashy films about hick town America that they used to make and that Kratz press conference :eek: it was like a cheap work of fiction , utterly laughable if it wasn't in deadly earnest .

a little bit like 'to kill a mockingbird' in a few ways- prior to the trial, the prosecution repeat their accusations over and over to everyone and everyone until the story is being passed around and told as fact

step into the courtroom months later, and no matter what new evidence is presented by the defence, the jury (and public) have already made their minds up.

i honestly thought this show was a very cleverly written piece of fiction.

the prosecutors telling their grizzly awful made up story on day-time news long before the trial, and the media lapping it up. you can imagine that public (understanably) would take it all in as fact, thinking that the cops had proof, and Avery and Dassy are therefore hung, drawn and quartered long before the trial. the prosecution had done their work before the two defence lawyers even turned up.
 
a little bit like 'to kill a mockingbird' in a few ways- prior to the trial, the prosecution repeat their accusations over and over to everyone and everyone until the story is being passed around and told as fact

step into the courtroom months later, and no matter what new evidence is presented by the defence, the jury (and public) have already made their minds up.

i honestly thought this show was a very cleverly written piece of fiction.

the prosecutors telling their grizzly awful made up story on day-time news long before the trial, and the media lapping it up. you can imagine that public (understanably) would take it all in as fact, thinking that the cops had proof, and Avery and Dassy are therefore hung, drawn and quartered long before the trial. the prosecution had done their work before the two defence lawyers even turned up.

Spot on, and this happened time and time again in parts of the US. If you watch the Memphis Three, Paradise Lost series, its exactly the same. They were guilty before they even walk in the courtroom. Its ridiculous and extremely worrying.
 
Steven Avery has the most successful appeal lawyer in America now on his case, and she’s already destroying the prosecution’s evidence on Twitter.

Kathleen Zellner has overturned more wrongful convictions than any other private US attorney, she claims, securing nearly $90 million for her clients betrayed by the US justice system.

Her firm "is looking forward to adding Mr Avery to its long list of wrongful conviction exonerations”, it said in a statement.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...oys-prosecution-case-on-twitter-a6829741.html
 
I've just finished watching it, and like most, I found it compelling, sickening and infuriating.
On the surface it it seems a clear cut stitch up job, which of course was the film-makers intentions, and it does seem incredibly likely that the police did indeed plant evidence.
That being said, that still doesn't mean that Avery didn't do it. What blurs the lines somewhat is the information that the TV show left out.
This is directly from pajiba.com, apologies if SEB, I've not been through every page on this thread.

— In the months leading up to Halbach’s disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times and always specifically requested Halbach to come out and take the photos.

— Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn’t want to go out to Avery’s trailer anymore, because once when she came out, Avery was waiting for her wearing only a towel (this was excluded for being too inflammatory). Avery clearly had an obsession with Halbach.

— On the day that Halbach went missing, Avery had called her three times, twice from a *67 number to hide his identity.

— The bullet with Halbach’s DNA on it came from Avery’s gun, which always hung above his bed.

— Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons like the ones Dassey described holding Halbach only three weeks before (Avery said he’s purchased them for use with his girlfriend, Jodi, with whom he’d had a tumultuous relationship — at one point, he was ordered by police to stay away from her for three days).

— Here’s the piece of evidence that was presented at trial but not in the series that I find most convincing: In Dassey’s illegally obtained statement, Dassey stated that he helped Avery moved the RAV4 into the junkyard and that Avery had lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Even if you believe that the blood in Halbach’s car was planted by the cops (as I do), there was also non-blood DNA evidence on the hood latch. I don’t believe the police would plant — or know to plant — that evidence.

There’s additional info in there, as well, like evidence that Halbach’s Palm Pilot and camera were found in Avery’s burn barrel, and that Brendan Dassey told police he’d been molested by Avery in the past. It’s all evidence that’s fairly damning against Avery, something filmmakers might not have been inclined to use given that they’d spent 10-plus years imbedded with both the subject himself and with his extended family. Then again, it’s all evidence that could have been fabricated or manipulated by the evil Manitowoc Country Sherriff’s department, should you believe there’s something going on there.

There's more here in The Independent
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...ery-the-netflic-show-missed-out-a6807961.html

Obviously the filmmakers left this out for good reason, they wouldn't want to spend 10 years documenting a case only to discover "shit, he really did do it" as that would ruin their documentary somewhat, but the info definitely adds doubt to the claim he's innocent.
Equally interesting is a recent interview with Jodi, Avery's ex girlfriend: this is from Vulture.com

Jodi Stachowski, the former fiancée of Steven Avery who appeared in Making a Murderer as one of Avery's biggest supporters, is speaking out against Avery for the first time. In a damning new interview on Nancy Grace, which aired Wednesday night, Stachowski claims Avery is guilty of murdering Teresa Halbach: "[I want people to know] the truth," she says. "What a monster he is. He's not innocent." She claims Avery physically abused her for the majority of their two-year relationship and once threatened to kill her and her family. Stachowski says she has always believed Avery killed Halbach and lied on Making a Murderer out of fear Avery would "make me pay."

At the time Avery allegedly committed the murder, Stachowski was in prison for a DUI, and their conversations on the day of the murder were explored as a potential alibi for him. Now she says that, despite how their relationship looked on the show, she never loved him. "I ate two boxes of rat poison just so I could go the hospital ... and get away from him, and ask them to get the police to help me," she says, noting his history of his domestic abuse against her, which Nancy Grace producer Natisha Lance says is proven in police records. Stachowski says that phone records should show that Avery threatened her from jail and told her to "make him look good," and that she's unsure if the show's directors were aware of this. She tells Nancy Grace that, when the directors contacted her for a follow-up interview last year, she declined and asked to be removed from the series entirely,telling them her previous statements were "all lies." She says she did not tell authorities of her belief that Avery was guilty until she moved out of Manitowoc county, and that prosecutors had planned to use her to testify against Avery.

I think there was definitely wrong doing by the police, but as to Avery's innocence, I'm unsure.
Hopefully more evidence will come to light in the upcoming second series.......
 

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