Leaving Neverland

[dangermows]

Actually, he told her sometime around the time of Jackson's second trial that "he is an evil man".

Apparently

 

[Tex]

The weird thing I noticed about the 2nd mother was they way she went on about celebrating when she heard that MJ died but it was another 3 years before her son told anyone what had happened to him. Either she was re-writing history for the documentary or she let slip that she knew something.

Good post matey. I was drifting off to sleep during part two the other week so caught it again yesterday and that was one of the standout moments for me. She was completely sucked into the cult of celebrity, abdicated her own parental responsibility, more than happy for Jacko to buy her gaff in LA, but then joyously celebrates when he shuffles off. What kind of people are these?

 

[bedlington mackem]

Aye totally. The two lads are incredibly brave for telling their stories. I just can't get over how their parents though it was okay for them to sleep in his bed with him. I believed the Jordy Chandler allegations at the time and nothing I've seen in this documentary has convinced me I was wrong.

brave ? For finally telling the " truth " after the y had denied it for years , including testimonies at Jacksons trial....and years after Jacksons death ?
Cowards i would have said

Aye that was hard going. Clearly the aussie mother was completely starstruck and dragged into the fantasy that the boy was going to be famous. The other lad's mam tells the story like she's still proud of it, bizarrely.

I wonder if the two lads know each other, because their stories were basically identical.

or told and "coached" to tell the same story

Yeah, a bit of a recurring theme in terms of age and appearance for it to have been platonic.

but one of them said that the abuse continued when he was 14 ....i really doub t that

I mentioned that point. If Bruno Mars was mincing around now holding 7 year olds hands and having sleepovers etc thered be fecking chaos now.
Looking back some folk seemed naive/too trusting back then (both in and out of this case).

bruno mars was never a child star who had no childhood though did he ? Jackson wanted to live his life like a child ....and did so

Or payed off enough and signed contracts etc to never say anything.

You dont think signed contracts would have been seized and used as evidence against Jackson ?

The two mothers are in absolute denial here mind.

Happy to allow their kids to keep the same arrangements even after the accusations.

Exactly ..they even asked their kids straight out if MJ had done anything to them and they both said no and whats more they believed them .
I would doubt very much that the two lads could both
A. Be very convincing liars at that age that both their parents couldnt see though those lies
B. Not be tempted to admit or show signs that they had been abused once the Jordi case came to light

 

[Mickdundee]

brave ? For finally telling the " truth " after the y had denied it for years , including testimonies at Jacksons trial....and years after Jacksons death ?
Cowards i would have said



or told and "coached" to tell the same story



but one of them said that the abuse continued when he was 14 ....i really doub t that


bruno mars was never a child star who had no childhood though did he ? Jackson wanted to live his life like a child ....and did so



You dont think signed contracts would have been seized and used as evidence against Jackson ?



Exactly ..they even asked their kids straight out if MJ had done anything to them and they both said no and whats more they believed them .
I would doubt very much that the two lads could both
A. Be very convincing liars at that age that both their parents couldnt see though those lies
B. Not be tempted to admit or show signs that they had been abused once the Jordi case came to light

Have you actually watched the documentary?

 

[dangermows]

Have you actually watched the documentary?

Was only that lad Wades emotional account towards the end that was convincing. A lot of it, particularly the first episode, seemed like shite.

bruno mars was never a child star who had no childhood though did he ? Jackson wanted to live his life like a child ....and did so

The vid I posted he does just seem like a child mind. And many of his closer circle said the same, even when reassuring parents they could leave their kids with him. Canny elsborate plan if he wasn't.

 

[The Rat]

brave ? For finally telling the " truth " after the y had denied it for years , including testimonies at Jacksons trial....and years after Jacksons death ?
Cowards i would have said



or told and "coached" to tell the same story



but one of them said that the abuse continued when he was 14 ....i really doub t that


bruno mars was never a child star who had no childhood though did he ? Jackson wanted to live his life like a child ....and did so



You dont think signed contracts would have been seized and used as evidence against Jackson ?



Exactly ..they even asked their kids straight out if MJ had done anything to them and they both said no and whats more they believed them .
I would doubt very much that the two lads could both
A. Be very convincing liars at that age that both their parents couldnt see though those lies
B. Not be tempted to admit or show signs that they had been abused once the Jordi case came to light

f***ing hell man, what part of a child's life is sleeping in a bed alone with a 7 year old child away from his parents

You're mad.

Every comment defending him. From the video you can't blame them either tbh.



First episode was far from convincing.



His brother might not knowing he's lying.

I can't believe you are still defending him marra

Very worrying.

 

[dangermows]

f***ing hell man, what part of a child's life is sleeping in a bed alone with a 7 year old child away from his parents

You're mad.



I can't believe you are still defending him marra

Very worrying.

Did you never, as a child, share your bed with another child? (before you fly in two footed again, the lad you are asking is stating Jackson saw himself as a child, which is the story always portrayed, not as an adult.

I cant believe you still think I am defending him marra. Very worrying.

*Mind, looks like loads are defending him, and that number appears to be growing.

 

[bedlington mackem]

Have you actually watched the documentary?

Yeah i did and while i think Jacksons antics are questionable for me there is still no irrefutable proof . I just dont get that the two accusers in the doc can wait so long in coming out with their stories and coincidentally at approx the same time in their lives and that they are so similar and that they both went straight to a film maker ?. Smacks of a set up to me but ultimately there was no new evidence to support their claims
One of them said "Id never SEEN him ( ie jacko ) so angry ! " and yet he was referring to a telephone conversation. I also was doubtful of the whole story where Jacko bummed him and then rang him up to tell him to destroy his blood stained underpants ...it wasnt convincing for me.

I watched the show expecting to hear real evidence but didnt see it and just wasnt convinced by the two guys story .

 

[Pacific]

Yeah i did and while i think Jacksons antics are questionable for me there is still no irrefutable proof . I just dont get that the two accusers in the doc can wait so long in coming out with their stories and coincidentally at approx the same time in their lives and that they are so similar and that they both went straight to a film maker ?. Smacks of a set up to me but ultimately there was no new evidence to support their claims
One of them said "Id never SEEN him ( ie jacko ) so angry ! " and yet he was referring to a telephone conversation. I also was doubtful of the whole story where Jacko bummed him and then rang him up to tell him to destroy his blood stained underpants ...it wasnt convincing for me.

I watched the show expecting to hear real evidence but didnt see it and just wasnt convinced by the two guys story .

not like they've just suddenly decided to accuse him

Robson at least accused him years ago

 

[BigPete]

Is this on Netflix?

 

[Cypher]

Is this on Netflix?

It's available on Channel 4 OD.

Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me - Episode Guide - All 4

 

[Tex]

Yeah i did and while i think Jacksons antics are questionable for me there is still no irrefutable proof . I just dont get that the two accusers in the doc can wait so long in coming out with their stories and coincidentally at approx the same time in their lives and that they are so similar and that they both went straight to a film maker ?. Smacks of a set up to me but ultimately there was no new evidence to support their claims
One of them said "Id never SEEN him ( ie jacko ) so angry ! " and yet he was referring to a telephone conversation. I also was doubtful of the whole story where Jacko bummed him and then rang him up to tell him to destroy his blood stained underpants ...it wasnt convincing for me.

I watched the show expecting to hear real evidence but didnt see it and just wasnt convinced by the two guys story .

I think the way a documentary works is a writer / director has an idea and researches a topic and tracks down those who will support the story he’s trying to tell. So while the whole thing is one-sided, and that’s a fair criticism which has been noted abundantly, it’s not like both these lads just happened to wake up one day, and on THE SAME DAY decide it’s time to come out and tell their story to the world.

 

[BigPete]

It's available on Channel 4 OD.

Leaving Neverland: Michael Jackson and Me - Episode Guide - All 4

May have a watch see what it’s all about

 

[Cypher]

May have a watch see what it’s all about

I've read a bit about it on the thread on here but that's it. Can't be watching that tbf - sounds as grim as it gets.

 

[BigPete]

I've read a bit about it on the thread on here but that's it. Can't be watching that tbf - sounds as grim as it gets.

That’s what I’m unsure about, if it’s really grim doubt I’d manage more than one episode.

 

[bedlington mackem]

I think the way a documentary works is a writer / director has an idea and researches a topic and tracks down those who will support the story he’s trying to tell. So while the whole thing is one-sided, and that’s a fair criticism which has been noted abundantly, it’s not like both these lads just happened to wake up one day, and on THE SAME DAY decide it’s time to come out and tell their story to the world.

Yeah i get that ..but at the same time you dont think there was any colloboration between the two guys ( mediated by the filmmaker ) as to what they were going to say ? Or that one of them would agrre to be filmed as long as the other one was too etc etc
was it just coincidence that they both decided to tell all after they had both got married and had their own first kids ?

i love a good documentary , particularly if it involves someone or something to do with the music industry but it has to be based on facts and i didnt see enough of that.
why were they not asked if they had been given money to keep quiet or to testify in Jackos favour ? Thats the first question i would have asked

not like they've just suddenly decided to accuse him

Robson at least accused him years ago

when ? Presumably after he died ?

 

[Mickdundee]

when ? Presumably after he died ?

If the film is anything to go by, both men had breakdowns of some sort and the realisation/accusations came as a result of the aftermath, which is completely understandable IMO.

Robson in particular would have a lot to lose from making false accusations given that he’s had a successful career in the entertainment industry.

 

[Deleted member 12331]

Yeah i get that ..but at the same time you dont think there was any colloboration between the two guys ( mediated by the filmmaker ) as to what they were going to say ? Or that one of them would agrre to be filmed as long as the other one was too etc etc
was it just coincidence that they both decided to tell all after they had both got married and had their own first kids ?

i love a good documentary , particularly if it involves someone or something to do with the music industry but it has to be based on facts and i didnt see enough of that.
why were they not asked if they had been given money to keep quiet or to testify in Jackos favour ? Thats the first question i would have asked



when ? Presumably after he died ?

Apparently it’s quite common for people to only be strong enough to come forwards after the abuser has died.

Saville was nowhere near the celebrity of MJ, but had enough influence to silence victims whilst alive.

The fact there are about 5 victims all saying he abused them is pretty damming. Not sure why people have such a hard on for claiming he’s innocent. Odd.

 

[bedlington mackem]

Apparently it’s quite common for people to only be strong enough to come forwards after the abuser has died.

Saville was nowhere near the celebrity of MJ, but had enough influence to silence victims whilst alive.

The fact there are about 5 victims all saying he abused them is pretty damming. Not sure why people have such a hard on for claiming he’s innocent. Odd.

but they have waited till almost 10 years after he died ?. The Saville victims came out virtually straight away.
did you see the rece nt series about Clinton and Lewinsky ? Clintons body language gave away that he was guilty...he told lie after lie. Compare that to Jackson when he was put under pressure.......he didnt flinch.
i ve got no great love in for Jackson , he was clearly off his nut ....but i dont think he was an evil paedo

 

[Manny F]

but they have waited till almost 10 years after he died ?. The Saville victims came out virtually straight away.
did you see the rece nt series about Clinton and Lewinsky ? Clintons body language gave away that he was guilty...he told lie after lie. Compare that to Jackson when he was put under pressure.......he didnt flinch.
i ve got no great love in for Jackson , he was clearly off his nut ....but i dont think he was an evil paedo

So if you knew a bloke in his 30s who closeted himself away in a bedroom with a young boy to ‘play’ with him and slept in his bed with him, alone, you would only describe that as ‘questionable antics’ as in your earlier post? It doesn’t really matter if the two victims are telling the truth about the sexual activity, Jackson’s admitted behaviour on its own is sick and potentially harmful. It is the behaviour of a paedophile. No man without those impulses would do that in a million years, unless he’s seriously mentally impaired, and Jackson wasn’t. If he was seriously ‘just a child’ would he be able to negotiate his own complex deals, as he was known to do? And if it was all innocent why the system of cameras outside the bedroom?

As for him not flinching, did Huntley ‘flinch’? No, he convinced everyone at first and he’d just committed murder. Watch the Netflix documentary on Jeffrey Dahmer with the footage of him defending himself in court, an articulate speaker and a model of composure, who just happened to have brutally killed over 30 young women. Body language means nothing.

So if you knew a bloke in his 30s who closeted himself away in a bedroom with a young boy to ‘play’ with him and slept in his bed with him, alone, you would only describe that as ‘questionable antics’ as in your earlier post? It doesn’t really matter if the two victims are telling the truth about the sexual activity, Jackson’s admitted behaviour on its own is sick and potentially harmful. It is the behaviour of a paedophile. No man without those impulses would do that in a million years, unless he’s seriously mentally impaired, and Jackson wasn’t. If he was seriously ‘just a child’ would he be able to negotiate his own complex deals, as he was known to do? And if it was all innocent why the system of cameras outside the bedroom?

As for him not flinching, did Huntley ‘flinch’? No, he convinced everyone at first and he’d just committed murder. Watch the Netflix documentary on Jeffrey Dahmer with the footage of him defending himself in court, an articulate speaker and a model of composure, who just happened to have brutally killed over 30 young women. Body language means nothing.

I meant Ted Bundy of course not Jeffrey Dahmer.