Le Saux gay taunts article.


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Well no, I'm not sure if a gay player would get a load of abuse.

I think the thing is, straight men don't like being called 'puffs'. It's an attack on their masculinity, ego, and whatever else. 'Out' gay men seem happy with their own sexuality, as do the general public, and I don't think abuse would be accepted.

I think with 'abuse' Le Saux got, it was pretty much accepted because people actually knew he wasn't gay.

Is it acceptable to be using homosexuality as an insult towards straight men? Probably not, but it's happens, innocently enough, on a daily basis. Thing is, I think there's a difference as well between an insult and a taunt. A lot of it's not meant as a slur.

I think that's very naïve mate.......................doubtless they would get a load of rubbish a lot of it probably from team mates when the general public wouldn't be aware of it,from opponents in the heat of a game and beyond a doubt from idiots in the crowd...........

We are a lot more liberal in our views now but football and society still has its fair share of cavemen............
 
Interpretation mate.............that not how what I think is an excellent article reads at all.................

To him at the time doubtless the rubbish he was subjected to were the "worst thing ever" and to me that reflects on the cavemen who subjected him to it not on people who are homosexual...............

Of course, and it could just be my interpretation, but I thought it was a good opportunity to outline the issues within football that make it so difficult for gay players to admit their sexuality while still playing, and also name and shame the idiots that contribute. To an extent he does this, but in my opinion it reads more like a sob story and the rest is rather secondary. And to me that's a bit disappointing considering his age and maturity now.
 
I was talking more in general. He just comes across as a bit of a tit (Fowler)

I think in general most people thought he was just a bit of a 'lad' - say if a cross section of your average football fans were watching the match (like in the bar of the Bell or summit) they would have laughed at his Le saux antics, they would have laughed at his line snorting, they would have laughed at his 'how long' celebration with McManaman against Boro.

He came across as a bit of a scally daft lad thats all.
 
I think he's making the situation worse by taking such offence at the accusations of being gay. I get that it can get irritating after a while, but really why did it upset him so much?

How would you feel if you were, continually, exposed to accusations that you were gay (assuming that you are not)?

Would you feel that they were harmless fun or something more?

For the record, I'm not gay but can accept whatever two consenting adults do in privacy is their own business.

What did disgust me, as I witnessed in Covent Garden a few years ago, was (probably) about 50 skinheads, on a carousel, sticking their tongues down each other's throats.

That, for me, went too far!
 
Of course, and it could just be my interpretation, but I thought it was a good opportunity to outline the issues within football that make it so difficult for gay players to admit their sexuality while still playing, and also name and shame the idiots that contribute. To an extent he does this, but in my opinion it reads more like a sob story and the rest is rather secondary. And to me that's a bit disappointing considering his age and maturity now.
Like I say mine reads it as an account of what he had to put up with and not a sob story but telling it how it was and to be honest it doesn't from that point of view make for very good reading........

It doesn't surprise me when the likes of Fowler/Savage and Ince are central to it and as someone pointed out the latter is a hypocrite of the highest order when he now bleats on about how the game supposedly treats black managers...............
 
Well no, I'm not sure if a gay player would get a load of abuse.

I think the thing is, straight men don't like being called 'puffs'. It's an attack on their masculinity, ego, and whatever else. 'Out' gay men seem happy with their own sexuality, as do the general public, and I don't think abuse would be accepted.

I think with 'abuse' Le Saux got, it was pretty much accepted because people actually knew he wasn't gay.

Is it acceptable to be using homosexuality as an insult towards straight men? Probably not, but it's happens, innocently enough, on a daily basis. Thing is, I think there's a difference as well between an insult and a taunt. A lot of it's not meant as a slur.

I wrote many paragraphs on why you're a big dummy, but thought it more succinct just to say that you're a great big dummy.
 
I'm afraid that the way he describes it all in the article makes the accusations seem like the worst thing ever, which in turn makes it seem like being gay would similarly be the worst thing ever. Which to me doesn't help the situation (either his or actual homosexuals).

Yeah, that Le Saux fella is a real homophobe.[DOUBLEPOST=1389282257][/DOUBLEPOST]
I never said you are a gay hater. Thousands of people sung stuff like "he's a wog, a wog" at Roker Park in the 80s. I'm sure almost none of them were hardcore NF racists, still doesn't mean there's any place for it or that, 30 years on, anyone can be proud of that or find it funny.

I don't really like equating racism and homophobia because it's silly. Having said that one of the main issues around this whole thing isn't homosexuality but closeted homosexuality. There is a gay community, there is a black community, but there's no closeted community. It's abuse like this that prevents people from coming out, and understandably so. This means they have to deal with all those issues in secret, with no-one to vent to, and perhaps more significantly, no chance to fall in love.
 
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I think in general most people thought he was just a bit of a 'lad' - say if a cross section of your average football fans were watching the match (like in the bar of the Bell or summit) they would have laughed at his Le saux antics, they would have laughed at his line snorting, they would have laughed at his 'how long' celebration with McManaman against Boro.

He came across as a bit of a scally daft lad thats all.

I admit I did but just think the scally daft lad act makes him look a knob. Never really took to the lad personally.
 
How would you feel if you were, continually, exposed to accusations that you were gay (assuming that you are not)?

Would you feel that they were harmless fun or something more?


For the record, I'm not gay but can accept whatever two consenting adults do in privacy is their own business.

What did disgust me, as I witnessed in Covent Garden a few years ago, was (probably) about 50 skinheads, on a carousel, sticking their tongues down each other's throats.

That, for me, went too far!

Had it quite a lot over the years, though admittedly not from thousands of people at once and it's much less these days. Various reasons I suppose, having long hair and wearing a hairband when I played was one. Having a rather boyish face, and not really starting to shave until I was about 25 probably being another. I seem to attract more advances from blokes than lasses so there must be something about me! :lol:

I certainly didn't have it as bad as Le Saux, and I wouldn't claim to, but I still think he is now dealing with it wrong. When you are young and immature you can get easily upset by this sort of thing, but once you get older and you look back on it, I think you should be able to rise above it.
 
I had worked with someone who played semi-pro football in the 80s and he had a voice similar to Alan Ball's and whilst not gay he was certainly quite feminine. His boss told him early on if he got taunted to use it back against the taunters. So for instance if someone was shielding the ball out, he would say "Do you think it's safe to turn your arse on me.?" He said that he was quite successful at getting other players carded.
 
Had it quite a lot over the years, though admittedly not from thousands of people at once and it's much less these days. Various reasons I suppose, having long hair and wearing a hairband when I played was one. Having a rather boyish face, and not really starting to shave until I was about 25 probably being another. I seem to attract more advances from blokes than lasses so there must be something about me! :lol:

I certainly didn't have it as bad as Le Saux, and I wouldn't claim to, but I still think he is now dealing with it wrong. When you are young and immature you can get easily upset by this sort of thing, but once you get older and you look back on it, I think you should be able to rise above it.

Good post again.
 
I'm afraid that the way he describes it all in the article makes the accusations seem like the worst thing ever, which in turn makes it seem like being gay would similarly be the worst thing ever. Which to me doesn't help the situation (either his or actual homosexuals).

I understand that it must have been extremely annoying at the time, and along with the bullying in general, upsetting for a young guy. But now he's an adult, with plenty of experience, and he's looking back on it. He should be able to see how idiotic it all was, and how stupid and pathetic those involved were, but instead he seems to have focussed on how terrible the accusations were. That to me is not helpful at all.

Sorry marra but the word "annoying", for me, does not go far enough.

Instead, try thinking about how you would feel if you were accused (today) of being a nonce or a paedophile.

Would you just feel "annoyed", or would you prefer to use other adjectives to display your disgust/contempt for someone suggesting it?

Then, how would you react/deal with the situation and/or the individual who did that?
 
I had worked with someone who played semi-pro football in the 80s and he had a voice similar to Alan Ball's and whilst not gay he was certainly quite feminine. His boss told him early on if he got taunted to use it back against the taunters. So for instance if someone was shielding the ball out, he would say "Do you think it's safe to turn your arse on me.?" He said that he was quite successful at getting other players carded.

:lol: Quality come back
 
Sorry marra but the word "annoying", for me, does not go far enough.

Instead, try thinking about how you would feel if you were accused (today) of being a nonce or a paedophile.

Would you just feel "annoyed", or would you prefer to use other adjectives to display your disgust/contempt for someone suggesting it?

Then, how would you react/deal with the situation/individual?

:lol: Fuckin' hell man. Completely different. Jesus wept.
 
Sorry marra but the word "annoying", for me, does not go far enough.

Instead, try thinking about how you would feel if you were accused (today) of being a nonce or a paedophile.

Would you just feel "annoyed", or would you prefer to use other adjectives to display your disgust/contempt for someone suggesting it?

Then, how would you react/deal with the situation/individual?

:eek:

Mate, there's something seriously wrong with being a paedophile, which is why that would be upsetting to everyone. And why it is nothing like being called gay.
 
Even if he was gay, to be hurled abuse and insults wouldn't be nice. So it's even worse when he genuinely wasn't.

Considering all the stick he took from fans and players I think Le Saux behaved pretty admirably.

From the outside looking in, it's easy to say "Oh he should have just put up with it" banters one thing, but when it reaches that level and it affects you personally it must be very difficult to shake it off.
 
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