eddyr
Midfield
It's an important issue and important issues tend to spark debate.It's funny seeing how het up some folks get on others behalf's.![]()
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It's an important issue and important issues tend to spark debate.It's funny seeing how het up some folks get on others behalf's.![]()
Debate I'm all for, it's grown men whinging like lasses that does my napper inIt's an important issue and important issues tend to spark debate.
You do realise that in between bullying and banter there is a large gap filled by things called teasing, jokes, humour etc? It is not just a line between the two - much more complex.
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Whereas I am unable to call Fowler a C**t, as he was only teasing and trying to annoy and get a rise out of an opponent, I am also able to distinguish between Fowler's "teasing/getting a rise" and actual bullying. From Fowler's point of view he was taking part in a one-off instance of teasing. From Le Saux's point of view this was just more icing on the cake - he saw it everywhere and naturally found it upsetting - it was an amalgamation from numerous sources that created this - not just Fowler. I am certain that if Fowler truly understood how Le Saux viewed the instance then he would not have done it. I am also certain that the way Fowler viewed the incident was a lot more innocent.
All these things are wrong (as with all teasing and bullying - none of it is ever justifiable but I can never see it being totally eradicated) but it is important to note people's intentions rather than how it was perceived by the victim as this lets you know whether they intended to inflict hurt, have some fun, or in this case - hopefully wind your opponent up into making a mistake. Fowler certainly meant no long-term harm.
Attitudes change all the time and forms of teasing and bullying change or become unacceptable through it. When I was a kid, everyone was called gay instead of idiot - right or wrong! Nowadays, inroads are being made to stop the bullying of Ginger-haired people etc. There is no reason for anyone to read this story and not think the two following thoughts:
1. Fowler wasn't being Homophobic, meaning to intimidate or bully. He in no way meant any lasting harm - thoughtless rather than evil.
2. Le Saux had a horrid time of it being bullied by Media, Players and Fans. I only feel sorry for him having to endure it.
I don't think anyone needs to be on the side of Fowler or Le Saux as such but just understand the situation. I certainly read stories like this and am then more understanding of the thoughtless stuff I may say sometimes. I think that it helps us all gain a realisation from empathising with all parties involved and hopefully leads to less likelihood of upset in future.
I couldnt give 2 shits if someone prefers to smoke poles (dont understand it particularly, but each to their own and all that). But to all those (usually the same posters I notice) PC brigade posters who are up in arms and offended about everything on other peoples behalf, one question... How come you never jump on anyones back when they call someone a dirty mag, or suchlike..?! Id be far more offended to be called a skunk than a gay..., but surely its one and the same no?
I didnt really mean comparable, but you get my drift!!Not really comparable, but I get what you're saying about the high horse riders, of which there's f***ing loads on this here thread.
Not really, but to be honest, I've just never really liked the bloke and never liked him as a footballer.Is that what you got from the article? You thought it was Le Saux trying to insist that he's straight?
It's funny seeing how het up some folks get on others behalf's.![]()
shut up you puffIt's not on other people's behalf though.
If you saw someone keying a car, you'd be angry about it even if it wasn't yours. It's about understanding the role you and others play in society.
We don't all exist in a bubble.
Not really, but to be honest, I've just never really liked the bloke and never liked him as a footballer.
I did actually mention on this thread that he made some interesting points for discussion, but that seemed to get lost amongst all the rainbow flag waving.
Last place you want to put forward an analogy here. Not many up for the fight and just laugh.It's not on other people's behalf though.
If you saw someone keying a car, you'd be angry about it even if it wasn't yours. It's about understanding the role you and others play in society.
We don't all exist in a bubble.
shut up you puff
It's not on other people's behalf though.
If you saw someone keying a car, you'd be angry about it even if it wasn't yours. It's about understanding the role you and others play in society.
We don't all exist in a bubble.
But Fowler kept on going when Le Saux was upset, and refused to back down weeks afterwards when the match was a distant memory.
I'm certain that Fowler understood how Le Saux felt. Le Saux told him. Fowler even recounted in his own autobiography that he knew how he felt, only he claimed that he made some quip about that he did not actually make. The famed scouse wit, I believe it's called.
If you've read the article, you'll know that the bullying went way beyond Fowler. Le Saux was hounded at Chelsea by, it seems, most of the playing and coaching staff. And that was just because they suspected he might be gay. You can understand in that context why actual gay footballers choose not to come out. I'd imagine most clubs have or have had a Le Saux - an erudite and non-macho character who gets called a 'puff' every day.
Le Saux does seems to have a thin skin on this issue. Maybe that's his personality, or maybe it's a product of being wore down over the years. Either way, the blame doesn't fall on his shoulders, it falls on the shoulders of grown men who ought to know better. They're idiots, not sociopaths. There's no excuse.
It's not really that though, it's the (faux) ultra-liberalism shown by some posters.
It's like "look at me look at me, I love the gays the blacks the whites and the Jews. I'm so above all those nasty football fans and their knuckle dragging ethos!"
Pathetic.
The debate is about players on a board populated by the knuckle dragging fans he mentions.What makes you think it's false? What a ludicrous position to take.
And no one on this thread has mentioned football fans. The debate is about players.
Le Saux does seems to have a thin skin on this issue. Maybe that's his personality, or maybe it's a product of being wore down over the years.
What do you mean by rainbow flag waving? Is that a specific point you're making, or just an easy way to categorise anyone who doesn't #bantzzzz?
I agree.Le Saux does seems to have a thin skin on this issue. Maybe that's his personality, or maybe it's a product of being wore down over the years. Either way, the blame doesn't fall on his shoulders, it falls on the shoulders of grown men who ought to know better. They're idiots, not sociopaths. There's no excuse.
The debate is about players on a board populated by the knuckle dragging fans he mentions.
As to why I'm on this thread, it's cos I get a really nice warm feeling in the front of my pants when I picture you defending the weak and vulnerable in this precious society of ours. It makes me horny.
Nothing to do with "#bantz". Just some posters seem to me to have taken Le Saux and his article at face value as being some champion of anti-homophobia in football and are giving it the 'right on brother' and frankly I just don't really buy it. The OP said 'brilliant article'. I don't think it was.
There is an issue there in football. I argued as much on a different thread the day before this one was posted.
He was always very complimentary about SAFC. In the last game at roker park where we defeated liverpool 1 v0 he was the last off the pitch. As he was walking off he turned to the crowd and clapped and you could see him looking around roker park thinking he'd never play at the ground again. Great player in his pomp.Fowler is a right arsehole.