Keith Curle

I think most football clubs and their chairman would employ the devil if they thought it would bring them success.
Most appointments are a risk so it’s not surprising clubs pick people already with past success, experience or even well travelled average ones.
 


HarrogateMackem said:
I think I’d rather be the token interview then not have an interview at all. Gives them a chance to win over the selection team, even when their mind is already made up.

Yeah so sometimes they aren’t going to sway the blokes opinion as they have already given the job to someone and are just going through the motions. But every so often a chairman will be bowled over by a BAME candidate and pick them.

Also the very act of having to put a name on a shortlist might well open up opportunities for that candidate for coaching, assistant manager roles or even just manager roles in the future if this initial hire doesn’t work.
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Would it not just cause more division though? The people involved will have all their applicants, have an idea who they want and at times may not even want to interview that many people. It's not even as if the best candidate always gets jobs as it is - it comes down to all sorts of factors and preference from cost, availability etc etc. To then make them go through the process and detail it to just to then come up with whatever bullshit excuse in the detailing of their decision.

Starting point (IMO) is to not give those who may have any predjudice any more ammunition and to keep up with the way black managers and especially coaches are becoming just coaches and managers, being more visible in the game and making sure those that want to have the opportunity to do their badges etc. Not just make some token interview mandatory.
 
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Perryqhill said:
Would it not just cause more division though? The people involved will have all their applicants, have an idea who they want and at times may not even want to interview that many people. It's not even as if the best candidate always gets jobs as it is - it comes down to all sorts of factors and preference from cost, availability etc etc. To then make them go through the process and detail it to just to then come up with whatever bullshit excuse in the detailing of their decision.

Starting point (IMO) is to not give those who may have any predjudice any more ammunition and to keep up with the way black managers and especially coaches are becoming just coaches and managers, being more visible in the game and making sure those that want to have the opportunity to do their badges etc. Not just make some token interview mandatory.
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Are black players not being given the opportunity to do their badges?
 
Perryqhill said:
Would it not just cause more division though? The people involved will have all their applicants, have an idea who they want and at times may not even want to interview that many people. It's not even as if the best candidate always gets jobs as it is - it comes down to all sorts of factors and preference from cost, availability etc etc. To then make them go through the process and detail it to just to then come up with whatever bullshit excuse in the detailing of their decision.

Starting point (IMO) is to not give those who may have any predjudice any more ammunition and to keep up with the way black managers and especially coaches are becoming just coaches and managers, being more visible in the game and making sure those that want to have the opportunity to do their badges etc. Not just make some token interview mandatory.
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Could you not do both?

There’s no simple answer and I think the Rooney rule is just one of many things that needs to be implemented.

It’s not the same, but my Uni supervisor had a PHD project with funding tailor made for one of her students and was going to give it to him. But, Uni rules meant that she had to publish its availability and offer it out to interviews. Low and behold another bloke came along from another university and blew her away with his interview and proposal and got the PHD project and funding instead.

As an aside I think that for “non-footballers” the cost of getting you badges is crazily high in this country. That probably puts off many working class lads and ladies from giving management a go. Obviously race intersects with class in the sense that BAME people are proportionally working class.
 
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Pop said:
Are black players not being given the opportunity to do their badges?
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I presume they are. I'm talking across the board really but I suppose it's about funding, availability etc. In reality they shouldn't be given anymore opportunity or funding than anyone else, but they should have the same opportunities - I can't answer if they do or don't. I'm more or less saying keep on promoting it, keep on with kick racism out of football because I believe whilst there's always going to racism in parts of society, football has made great strides with it and it's becoming more how it should be - a black manager or coach is no longer a big thing, just keep on with it. From the outside I don't believe it needs radical changes.
HarrogateMackem said:
Could you not do both?

There’s no simple answer and I think the Rooney rule is just one of many things that needs to be implemented.

It’s not the same, but my Uni supervisor had a PHD project with funding tailor made for one of her students and was going to give it to him. But, Uni rules meant that she had to publish its availability and offer it out to interviews. Low and behold another bloke came along from another university and blew her away with his interview and proposal and got the PHD project and funding instead.

As an aside I think that for “non-footballers” the cost of getting you badges is crazily high in this country. That probably puts off many working class lads and ladies from giving management a go. Obviously race intersects with class in the sense that BAME people are proportionally working class.
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Would the same thing not apply to a white guy too though? Should you include one white guy you weren't considering in the first place? Or maybe you should just actively look through all applicants taking in all details and interview as such instead of sticking to the managerial merrygoround. I just don't think segregating/keeping dividing lines intact between races is ever a good idea and we're seeing that at the moment regardless of the intentions.


Getting outside of football opens up allsorts of cans of worms. I just don't believe the barriers are there in the UK like they are in the US.
 
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RichD said:
How many black people are actually applying?
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Great point. Few years ago now but Simon Jordan said that when he was Palace chairman and they were looking for a new manager, think it was after Dowie left, they had 102 applications - not one was from a black person. A couple of months later there was a TV documentary about the lack of black managers in the game and the fact they weren’t been given a chance. His point was, how can they be given a chance when they’re not applying for jobs?
rubberface said:
Massive bully when he was manager at Carlisle to the young'uns.
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Total rubbish mate. People accused him of ignoring the youngsters at the club and not giving them a chance but the fact was none of them were any good! The highly thought of youth coach, Eric Kinder, went to Blackburn and the club’s youth policy suffered as a consequence. Nobody came through and some blamed Curle but the fact that nobody has been remotely close to proving him wrong since means his decision was spot on - they all drifted into local non-league and some have even been released by those clubs!

With regards the first teamers he was accused of victimising and treating unfairly most seemed to be confusing discipline with bullying. Under Graham Kavanagh players were well known to be taking the piss; unprofessional, not training, arriving late (some not at all). First thing Curle did was find out who the ringleaders were and (notably Billy Paynter and Gary Dicker) and banished them from the first team. They were rock bottom when Curle arrived and his professional attitude helped keep the club up - two years later they were top of the league ahead of the likes of Luton, Pompey and Plymouth.

Basically he took one look at the club, stopped the piss-taking and introduced a professional attitude throughout the place. The complainers were the ones who got found out and ousted. Curle was popular amongst most fans and players, decent bloke.
 
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Sallycinamon said:
Great point. Few years ago now but Simon Jordan said that when he was Palace chairman and they were looking for a new manager, think it was after Dowie left, they had 102 applications - not one was from a black person. A couple of months later there was a TV documentary about the lack of black managers in the game and the fact they weren’t been given a chance. His point was, how can they be given a chance when they’re not applying for jobs?


Total rubbish mate. People accused him of ignoring the youngsters at the club and not giving them a chance but the fact was none of them were any good! The highly thought of youth coach, Eric Kinder, went to Blackburn and the club’s youth policy suffered as a consequence. Nobody came through and some blamed Curle but the fact that nobody has been remotely close to proving him wrong since means his decision was spot on - they all drifted into local non-league and some have even been released by those clubs!

With regards the first teamers he was accused of victimising and treating unfairly most seemed to be confusing discipline with bullying. Under Graham Kavanagh players were well known to be taking the piss; unprofessional, not training, arriving late (some not at all). First thing Curle did was find out who the ringleaders were and (notably Billy Paynter and Gary Dicker) and banished them from the first team. They were rock bottom when Curle arrived and his professional attitude helped keep the club up - two years later they were top of the league ahead of the likes of Luton, Pompey and Plymouth.

Basically he took one look at the club, stopped the piss-taking and introduced a professional attitude throughout the place. The complainers were the ones who got found out and ousted. Curle was popular amongst most fans and players, decent bloke.
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I know uncle of one youngun who got bullied by Curle. Fact.
 
Bullied or disciplined? The little darlings of today often get the two confused, they don’t like getting brought into line.

I work with a lad who looks after the youngsters from outside the area at Carlisle. He says Curle didn’t have a great deal of time for the young lads at the club but certainly wasn’t a bully.
 
Cox Green Fc said:
Pasty eating bald idiot. Go and clean them gravy stains off your 1998 replica Newcastle top.
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:lol:

Your patter is almost as bad as your racist views tbh. Almost.

Canny funny how angry you’re getting when you couldn’t put the cat out.

Grrr...gravy.
 
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