Keith Curle

Pop said:
No answer to this @Banks?

Vincent Kompany was offered a coaching role at City but bizarrely decided to go back to the country he was born in to manage the club he started his career with, baffling decision.

Any evidence of these racist chairmen?
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There isn't mate, some people like to just make assumptions based on nothing. Race card being the biggest one
 


Cox Green Fc said:
Northampton manager just got them promoted.

Anyone hear his views on the Rooney rule and black managers etc.

Only black person I've heard speak sense regarding this situation. Saying he wouldn't want an interview or job just becasue of the colour of his skin, would want it on merit. Spot on.

Few other good points he made aswell, saying the exact opposite of all them other taties like Sol Campbell etc.

Well done Keith. Respect
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Exactly as it should be. Well said Keith đź‘Ź

Do-gooders are the main problem
 
TopCat said:
I'm pretty sure (and happy to be corrected here) that the Rooney Rule isn't about giving someone a job because of the colour of their skin, it's more about making sure BAME candidates at least get an interview (or a certain % of BAME applicants are interviewed). Many cannot even get a foot in the door, so the Rooney Rule is to guarantee a certain % of applicants are BAME but the job is still given to the best candidate
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i dont think i would be a fan of the Rooney rule id want my team to highlight the manager they want based on their footballing characteristics and achievements him and go appoint him
 
Henry_Hill said:
i dont think i would be a fan of the Rooney rule id want my team to highlight the manager they want based on their footballing characteristics and achievements him and go appoint him
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and I think you can still do that by having (for example) 1 black coach on a shortlist of 5 potential managers.

Football has the worst record in terms of recruitment, it's never a merit or competency based system, it's the same old people on the merry-go-round getting job after job.
I would absolutely be in favour of a) The Rooney Rule and b) a competency based recruitment exercise
 
Pop said:
No answer to this @Banks?

Vincent Kompany was offered a coaching role at City but bizarrely decided to go back to the country he was born in to manage the club he started his career with, baffling decision.

Any evidence of these racist chairmen?
Click to expand...

It isn't baffling though is it. He was offered a managers position rather than a coaches position.

Here's one for you.

Stuart Pearce awful manager. Has been England under 21 manager and Man City manager.

Southgate awful at Boro becomes under 21 manager than national team manager.

Ince and Campbell both much more decorated players have to start from much lower positions in the pyramid.
 
Banks said:
It isn't baffling though is it. He was offered a managers position rather than a coaches position.

Here's one for you.

Stuart Pearce awful manager. Has been England under 21 manager and Man City manager.

Southgate awful at Boro becomes under 21 manager than national team manager.

Ince and Campbell both much more decorated players have to start from much lower positions in the pyramid.
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You make a good point but it's really hard to compare one manager with another, especially when they are different ages and retired at different times.
Ince for example, took a player coach role in 2006 and within a couple of months had a managers job at Macclesfield.
Pearce was assistant manager to Keegan at Man City for 3/4 years before taking the manager's job.

You could ask the question as to whether Ince had taken a coaching role for a few years, would he have had more of a chance getting a"bigger" job

For what it's worth, Ince had been in coaching/managing for less than 2 years before he was appointed to a big job (Blackburn) whereas Pearce had to wait 3 years and was only given the job when Keegan resigned unexpectedly

I'm not for a second suggesting that racism isn't an issue in football, not by a long stretch, but comparing managers and their jobs/successful applications isn't really a level playing field
 
Banks said:
It isn't baffling though is it. He was offered a managers position rather than a coaches position.

Here's one for you.

Stuart Pearce awful manager. Has been England under 21 manager and Man City manager.

Southgate awful at Boro becomes under 21 manager than national team manager.

Ince and Campbell both much more decorated players have to start from much lower positions in the pyramid.
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I’m not going to regurgitate what Top Cat has said but I will add taking a coaching role at a big club can lead to an appointment at a big club like Pearce and Arteta recently.

Mourinho effectively started out as an interpreter for Bobby Robson and was a coach for years.

Guardiola started out coaching Barcelona reserves.

Klopp started out at a shit team had played for in the lower leagues for nearly his entire career and got them promoted after a couple of years.

OGS managed the reserves and went via Molde, Cardiff, back to Molde before ending up at Man Utd.

Rodgers was academy director at Reading, then Chelsea, then reserve team manager before he spent years in the lower leagues with Watford, Reading and Swansea before getting the Liverpool job.
 
TopCat said:
and I think you can still do that by having (for example) 1 black coach on a shortlist of 5 potential managers.

Football has the worst record in terms of recruitment, it's never a merit or competency based system, it's the same old people on the merry-go-round getting job after job.
I would absolutely be in favour of a) The Rooney Rule and b) a competency based recruitment exercise
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I totally get what you’re saying mate but on the other hand the BAME coach may well feel their just here as a token interview cos somebody as to be interviewed. Im not sure what the solution is but agree something needs to be done
 
Henry_Hill said:
I totally get what you’re saying mate but on the other hand the BAME coach may well feel their just here as a token interview cos somebody as to be interviewed. Im not sure what the solution is but agree something needs to be done
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The problem is that whenever there is prejudice or discrimination, the system has to artificially create an environment where those discriminated against get a "chance"
So, in South African cricket you have the quota system, in other countries around the world you have Positive Action.

In an ideal world, a suitably qualified BAME candidate would get an interview, but where that doesn't happen intervention is required

I agree completely with your post though
 
Can anyone name a black manager in Europe that has won anything I find it amazing that people always seem to think it's just a British problem when it's looking like maybe a worldwide thing
 
TopCat said:
The problem is that whenever there is prejudice or discrimination, the system has to artificially create an environment where those discriminated against get a "chance"
So, in South African cricket you have the quota system, in other countries around the world you have Positive Action.

In an ideal world, a suitably qualified BAME candidate would get an interview, but where that doesn't happen intervention is required

I agree completely with your post though
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Fair points mate, think we’re obviously both agreed on we’d like to see more BAME managers/coaches in the game, personally on merit but to earn the merit they have to be given the start somewhere, is Rooney likey to be introduced to football?
 
Banks said:
Problem is how do you appoint someone on merit if the chairman is racist?

There needs to be a standardised process where chairmen are forced to document why a manager was appointed.

Then managers can challenge if they believe race was why they weren't appointed.
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Really hard to prove though. Chairman would say, why would I risk losing millions just so a black fella didn't get the job.
 
Banks said:
It isn't baffling though is it. He was offered a managers position rather than a coaches position.

Here's one for you.

Stuart Pearce awful manager. Has been England under 21 manager and Man City manager.

Southgate awful at Boro becomes under 21 manager than national team manager.

Ince and Campbell both much more decorated players have to start from much lower positions in the pyramid.
Click to expand...

No context like?

Stuart Pearce - massive players for England etc, got a job at City when they were skint when Keegan left and done quite well for a while - he was already there. fucked up every manager role since, but maybe he's a decent coach?

Southgate was at Boro when they were reducing the budgets after McClaren. Done well and then made some bad buys, done shit. Done well in coaching with England and got promoted to the top job after Allardyce fucked up - he was already there.

Both Ince and Campbell dropped down the leagues football wise. Not really the same. Ince also had a chance at a higher level quite quickly after MK dons when there were other candidates - purely down to his name.
 
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Perryqhill said:
No context like?

Stuart Pearce - massive players for England etc, got a job at City when they were skint when Keegan left and done quite well for a while - he was already there. fucked up every manager role since, but maybe he's a decent coach?

Southgate was at Boro when they were reducing the budgets after McClaren. Done well and then made some bad buys, done shit. Done well in coaching with England and got promoted to the top job after Allardyce fucked up - he was already there.

Both Ince and Campbell dropped down the leagues football wise. Not really the same. Ince also had a chance at a higher level quite quickly after MK dons when there were other candidates - purely down to his name.
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People also seem to think Campbell is a bit 'out there' in the way Tony Adams is and hence both Adams and Campbell have had to drop down the leagues or go abroad. Adams did have a brief spell at Portsmouth as he was assistant to Redknapp when the shit was about to hit the fan but he only lasted 16 games.
 
Henry_Hill said:
I totally get what you’re saying mate but on the other hand the BAME coach may well feel their just here as a token interview cos somebody as to be interviewed. Im not sure what the solution is but agree something needs to be done
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I think I’d rather be the token interview then not have an interview at all. Gives them a chance to win over the selection team, even when their mind is already made up.

Yeah so sometimes they aren’t going to sway the blokes opinion as they have already given the job to someone and are just going through the motions. But every so often a chairman will be bowled over by a BAME candidate and pick them.

Also the very act of having to put a name on a shortlist might well open up opportunities for that candidate for coaching, assistant manager roles or even just manager roles in the future if this initial hire doesn’t work.
 

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