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Steeeeed said:
Well you can just zoom the flash in ETTL mode. This may depend on the flash unit mind. And if ETTL isn't totally working for what you want dial in some +\- exposure or change ratios if using more than one. So it's ETTL with some manual intervention :)

All depends on location, time and the biggest limiting factor - what your mind can imagine the shot looking like.

I agree with ayesane mind, creative lighting is more about what the mind can think up, rather than what the fingers dial in to the speed light.

By the way, Iain Hesford's Bait Box has set up a Dropbox with some good books in, including a speed lighting one. Anyone interested should drop him a mail and check it out.

Ross, read the book. Sod the course man, just practice some self portraits or get your lass to pose. Or hit model mayhem. I'm planning to do this...
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he already blanked my kind offer. I'm starting to think he cannot read TBH.
 


Steeeeed said:
Be careful, he might not be able to read but he sure can open a can of whoop ass.
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Ye reet there mind; I met his brother recently and there's a clear brains-to-whoop-ass divide.

I think his bro might have been breast fed.
 
ayesane said:
he already blanked my kind offer. I'm starting to think he cannot read TBH.
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I've only just noticed it, been away with work and viewing off my phone. Aye, ill have a borrow of that please. TBH theres too many acronyms for my liking IMO IIRC

ayesane said:
Ye reet there mind; I met his brother recently and there's a clear brains-to-whoop-ass divide.

I think his bro might have been breast fed.
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:lol:
 
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oROSSo said:
Steeed, you got two 430's?
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I own one and have two on loan from a mate. Honestly, getting them working in groups is a piece of piss. Key, fill and rim lighting. Good fun, can get some nice results.
 
if any of yers wanna practice new born shots, just let is knaa where to leave her.

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c-section child so perfectly formed heed. :cool:
 
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Steeeeed said:
Well you can just zoom the flash in ETTL mode. This may depend on the flash unit mind. And if ETTL isn't totally working for what you want dial in some +\- exposure or change ratios if using more than one. So it's ETTL with some manual intervention :)

All depends on location, time and the biggest limiting factor - what your mind can imagine the shot looking like.

I agree with ayesane mind, creative lighting is more about what the mind can think up, rather than what the fingers dial in to the speed light.

By the way, Iain Hesford's Bait Box has set up a Dropbox with some good books in, including a speed lighting one. Anyone interested should drop him a mail and check it out.

Ross, read the book. Sod the course man, just practice some self portraits or get your lass to pose. Or hit model mayhem. I'm planning to do this...
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Aye +/- etc works fine in most circumstances... my argument is just that by using TTL you are never really understanding how flash works... so what if the flash is just getting it completely wrong? Or what if you fancy doing something creative that the TTL wont let you?

I would always say that just because you don't HAVE to learn something doesn't mean that you shouldn't. Knowledge is power after all.

And yeah of creativity course what the mind can think up... but that could be argued about composition too... now would you say the camera settings don't matter? I learnt manual camera settings, the exposure triangle etc to benefit me in my creative vision... If I'd always stuck to P or AV my knowledge wouldn't be as good.

Just my opinion like and tbh for most people TTL is more than they'll ever need... I just like a good debate I think :lol:
 
I can understand learning manual. It's how I started with my camera. I tend to use TV and AV now but I understand why it's doing what it's doing
 
ajax_andy said:
Aye +/- etc works fine in most circumstances... my argument is just that by using TTL you are never really understanding how flash works... so what if the flash is just getting it completely wrong? Or what if you fancy doing something creative that the TTL wont let you?

I would always say that just because you don't HAVE to learn something doesn't mean that you shouldn't. Knowledge is power after all.

And yeah of creativity course what the mind can think up... but that could be argued about composition too... now would you say the camera settings don't matter? I learnt manual camera settings, the exposure triangle etc to benefit me in my creative vision... If I'd always stuck to P or AV my knowledge wouldn't be as good.

Just my opinion like and tbh for most people TTL is more than they'll ever need... I just like a good debate I think :lol:
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Christ; manual flash is 2 setting man.. both of which you can set via the camera using ettl.. the third important variable (distance from subject) is where you would manually adjust the zoom and power to compensate when your VAL moves.. ETTL does that for you, so all you do is move the VAL: set your power and zoom and get consistent exposures no matter where your VAL is. That is all ETTL is.. if you want to be creative you can be consistently creative from any distance... it is not 'auto' for your flash.

I don't have to explain what P/AV mode and metering are - you know that.. the concepts are nothing alike other then you think doing it manually makes it better.. when in fact neither dictate how good a photograph you can take.

To me, setting your flash up and then trial and error moving the val is just guess work.. no visualisation has taken place pre-shoot.
 
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ayesane said:
Christ; manual flash is 2 setting man.. both of which you can set via the camera using ettl.. the third important variable (distance from subject) is where you would manually adjust the zoom and power to compensate when your VAL moves.. ETTL does that for you, so all you do is move the VAL: set your power and zoom and get consistent exposures no matter where your VAL is. That is all ETTL is.. if you want to be creative you can be consistently creative from any distance... it is not 'auto' for your flash.

I don't have to explain what P/AV mode and metering are - you know that.. the concepts are nothing alike other then you think doing it manually makes it better.. when in fact neither dictate how good a photograph you can take.

To me, setting your flash up and then trial and error moving the val is just guess work.. no visualisation has taken place pre-shoot.
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Ok maybe not Auto but it is semi-auto... I still don't personally believe that only ever using TTL is as good as learning manual. Say the same principal as using AV on the camera.

I'm not even saying doing it manually makes a better image... just someone's learning and understanding will be greater by using manual.

Just my opinion like and maybe you use TTL differently to many... my point is lots of people would just bung it in TTL and hope for the best which isn't ever going to teach them about how flash works.

For example if I change the Aperture or ISO I then have to adjust the flash power... this makes me understand the correlation between these different bits of kit and how they work together, TTL would never teach me that IMO
 
Learn manual (either camera or flash), yes. Use it exclusively, not for me. Probably wouldn't even use it normally. Let the fabulous technology take the strain.

Its like cutting a hole in the bottom of your car so you can power it yourself by running because when you get to work its more down to you than the machine. Let the engine do it dude, that's what it's there for. (possibly the worst analogy I've ever come up with, and there's some competition).
 
Steeeeed said:
Learn manual (either camera or flash), yes. Use it exclusively, not for me. Probably wouldn't even use it normally. Let the fabulous technology take the strain.

Its like cutting a hole in the bottom of your car so you can power it yourself by running because when you get to work its more down to you than the machine. Let the engine do it dude, that's what it's there for. (possibly the worst analogy I've ever come up with, and there's some competition).
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Depends on the situation... in Morocco I shot entirely in AV, but for the pre-wedding shoot entirely in manual.

At a wedding I'll use on camera TTL for most of it... only taking it off camera and using manual for the couple's shots and a few others where I have time to set things up.

It's about using the right tools at the right time IMO so best to learn everything and then you can pick and choose the best option for the job at hand
 
ajax_andy said:
Depends on the situation... in Morocco I shot entirely in AV, but for the pre-wedding shoot entirely in manual.

At a wedding I'll use on camera TTL for most of it... only taking it off camera and using manual for the couple's shots and a few others where I have time to set things up.

It's about using the right tools at the right time IMO so best to learn everything and then you can pick and choose the best option for the job at hand
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I agree with that mind, I know how to manually do my flash and how to get the best from TTL from only a couple sittings. Flash is a really closed subject in so much as getting it to work - but making it really work and benefit your photography is a life's work for some (Tim Tadder springs to mind).

When I was really into it I nearly bought a Ring Flash to take it to the next level (you could probably benefit from mastering that Andy; the results are excellent)

I kinda regret selling my flash now TBH :-(
 
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