June 4th live fpoty on tv



Musicman said:
Morning Dilli
Click to expand...
Cheers, Music, la. Here's the grafted arse:

I exceeded the character limit with the full article so I had to chop off its arse, which I hereby graft back on:

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR VACCINES?
If there is one question more important to the world right now than whether getting the virus gives you immunity, it’s whether getting a vaccine does. A vaccine is a medical trick. It is a benign deceit performed on your immune system. Most of us are familiar with the first part of its trickery — how the vaccine takes on the clothing of the virus, but in a deactivated form.
There is a second trick, a bit less well-known and a bit more mysterious. This is the adjuvant. Early in vaccine development, scientists found, for reasons they could not explain, that the drugs just worked better if they were mixed with other chemicals. This makes a kind of sense. It is not enough that the body spots a foreign invader, it also has to believe it is dangerous — it has to think, in Dr Riley’s words, “Eh-up, there’s something here I need to pay attention to”. This is what the adjuvant does.
The main bit of a vaccine is an imitation of the virus, and the adjuvant imitates danger. Different adjuvants work in different ways but overall, they all jump start an immune response. They are feints, mobilising the body against a phoney army — so it is ready in force for the real one.
“Crucially, the adjuvant, and many other aspects of a vaccine, could all be tweaked to give a strong response, even if coronavirus itself doesn’t,” Professor Davis says.
Andy Pollard is part of the team developing the Oxford vaccine. They have evidence from previous work that their approach will work — precisely because they can boost the response in this way.
“There is some cause for optimism there will be a lasting response,” he says. But he won’t go further than that. “I can’t prove it until we have done the studies, and that needs months and years.”
Ultimately, for vaccine-induced immunity and infection induced immunity alike, there is only one sure test. Wait and see.
 
thecloughywobble said:
I thought I'd try to post this article as it might be of interest to some. I can hoy up the link without much problem, but I've switched from furn to PC in the hope of achieving a copy & paste, thereby circumventing the paywall (for reasons which elude me, I can't copy text from The Times online on my furn, but sometimes I can on my PC). Bear with me (which is a daft thing to say, because by the time you read this - if ye can be arsed to read it - I'll have done whatever I can or can't do & you'll have no perception of the intervening time lapse, burrav said it now, so there it is):


There is a simple question that the experts who study viruses do not always relish being asked. The question is this: what is it that makes one disease give you lasting immunity, while in another it is fleeting?

“That is complicated,” says Shane Crotty, from the La Jolla Institute for Immunology in California.

“That’s really difficult,” agrees Deenan Pillay, professor of virology at University College London. “You would have to speak to a geeky immunologist about that.”

Dan Davis is professor of immunology at Manchester University, author of The Beautiful Cure, a book about the immune system, and a fully accredited geeky immunologist. “This is a crucial frontier that is shortly going to be of paramount importance,” he begins rather more promisingly. And his answer? “The truth is, it’s a really important gap in our knowledge. It’s a little bit mysterious.”


There is no shame in this — scientists happily admit that sometimes they operate at the edge of knowledge. But it is, nevertheless, a shame. Because as Professor Davis suggests, this question, currently, is really rather important.

On it hangs trillions of pounds and tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions, of lives. If an antibody test shows you have had coronavirus, does that mean you are immune to coronavirus? And for how long?
HOW IMMUNITY HAPPENS
Late last year, almost certainly in China, a human experienced something that had previously happened to no human in the world. A submicroscopic mix of protein molecules entered his or her body, found a cell in the throat or nose and inserted some genetic material to hijack it. This material was a code, 30,000 letters long and those letters in that precise sequence had never been inside a human. They were the new coronavirus.
In response, this human did something commonplace that is also extraordinary. So long as he or she survived, this person, this Patient Zero, not only fought it off, but found a way to attack it uniquely now and probably also, in the future. In the process he or she gained the antibodies that today are being tested for around the world.
Here is the standard description of how that happened.

In the body are cells called B-cells. On the surface of each cell are thousands of identical turrets of protein. Each turret is seeking its match — another protein, floating in the body, that will slot perfectly on to it, locking on.
On every individual cell, these turrets are identical. But each cell is different. And there are a lot of them. When a new B cell is made, its genes are shuffled to produce a new turret with a slightly different shape. This process can make 10 billion different flavours of turret. Enough, in fact, that there is pretty much nothing that can enter your body, whether virus or bacteria, to which there will not be a B-cell that can lock to it. Eventually, your body will find a match to one part of the coronavirus.
The immune system, in its complexity, is often called elegant. This first step, though, is not an elegant solution. It is deeply inelegant. It is what hackers would call a brute force attack, the equivalent of trying every password combination until you alight on the right one. But it works. When the B-cell finds its match it is activated and starts replicating.
Some of the copies it makes become factories, churning out soluble versions of those turrets — which we call antibodies — that lock on to the coronavirus. Antibodies can neutralise the virus directly, by stopping it being able to get inside a cell. They also flag the virus and infected cells for destruction by other immune cells. Some of these antibody-producing cells become “memory” cells, ready to mount a new defence if needed again.
And so it is that you become immune. How long for depends on how long your body decides to keep those cells and antibodies circulating. Sometimes it decides they are worth a long-term investment, sometimes not.

Antibody tests explained
When describing the immune system, it is hard not to talk of armies and soldiers and battles. But the mundane truth is, it is about atoms and structures that mindlessly lock and interlock.Why, in this wholly deterministic process, do we not know what happens next? The truth is, it is just too complex to understand that way.“The immune system is incredibly complicated,” says Eleanor Riley, professor of immunology and infectious disease at Edinburgh University. “Because it’s so important to us, it cannot have a single point of failure. There are loads of ways the body can see a virus, think ‘I don’t like this virus’, and get rid of it.”There are many parts of a coronavirus that a turret can lock on to, and there are also many methods — not covered in this simplified explanation — to do it. She likens it to a pinball falling through a machine. “There is no single path to the bottom. Put in a coronavirus, and like the pinball we know it will end up at the bottom, with immunity. But for every person it will do it differently.”
http://**affiliate tracking site removed**/2IzS8C4
When the ball lands there may be the flashing lights that mark a high score — long-term immunity. Or it may get diverted into the gutter of temporary immunity, leaving you reaching for coins to put in the slot, and preparing to do it all over again.
ROUTE TO LASTING IMMUNITY
Smallpox is the only disease that has ever been eradicated in humans. Towards the end of the 20th century, thanks to a vaccine, a virus that once killed a third of those infected, and infected two thirds of the population, disappeared from the planet. The benefits in terms of human suffering are incalculable.
There is also a comparatively small benefit to virology. Unlike with any other virus, we can be sure that since the 1970s no one has been re-exposed to it. For Shane Crotty, from the La Jolla Institute for Immunology, this was useful. He looked for antibodies in those who had been given the vaccine in the last wave. He found the antibodies were still there, as strong as ever.
“As far as we can tell, people have memory of smallpox for 40-plus years, and it didn’t really change between year five and year 40. Those cells are just circulating in people’s blood.” And yet, he adds, “We definitely know of other cases where we’ll have an immune response, and it’s essentially undetectable after three years.”
Worryingly, some of the most ephemeral immune responses, lasting just months, come from coronaviruses. Not the coronavirus that has gained viral celebrity in the truest sense of the term but from those that cause a sniffle rather than a pandemic, part of the cocktail of viruses we call the common cold.
Yet look at another coronavirus still — the one that caused the deadly Sars outbreak of 2002 — and not only are antibodies still circulating in people, but they may even offer some protection against the new pandemic.
So which category is this latest coronavirus, the superstar coronavirus, going to fall into? The best clue comes not in what the viruses look like but in what they do. Do they leave you reaching for a tissue? Or for a ventilator?
“This immune memory may work like any other memory,” says Alessandro Sette, from the La Jolla Institute. “In life, if it’s a very traumatic event, you tend to remember it more.” In this idea, Dr Riley says, “the body needs to say, ‘Eh-up, there’s something here I need to pay attention to’. If a virus causes little damage, if it gets into your nose but goes no further, there may just be a trivial response.”
Here, there is both good news and bad news for the coronavirus. For those worst affected the disease is severe enough that the likelihood is we will have a proportionate immune response — that the health care workers incapacitated by it this winter will not have to endure it next winter. But there is another corollary. Just this week we learnt that as many as 70 per cent of people barely get a symptom. Will they also have long-lived immunity? And does it matter if they don’t?
That depends, Dr Riley says. “Was it mild because they are not at risk? Or was it because they did not get much virus to start with? If the former, there’s no need to worry.” If the disease does not affect them, then it does not matter if their immunity fades. “If the latter, if it’s just because they got a glancing blow, then next time they might not be lucky.”

It's by a bloke carld Tom Whipple, the science editor in The Times. Here's the link for those w

www.thetimes.co.uk

Coronavirus: Quest for immunity is biggest fight of our life

There is a simple question that the experts who study viruses do not always relish being asked. The question is this: what is it that makes one disease give you lasting immunity, while in another it is fleeting?“That is complicated,” says Shane Crotty, from the La Jolla Institute for Immunology in C
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk
Click to expand...
Morning & good read Mr C

I found it interesting that the blerk in charge in Sweden has come out & said that his plan has generally worked but he made some decisions ( which he named & explained) that he regrets have cost lives & he would do things a bit differently next time.

Wot a bref of freshhair
 
Wakey ftm in Sussex said:
Morning & good read Mr C

I found it interesting that the blerk in charge in Sweden has come out & said that his plan has generally worked but he made some decisions ( which he named & explained) that he regrets have cost lives & he would do things a bit differently next time.

Wot a bref of freshhair
Click to expand...
Anders Tegnell: top boy. Some Swedish psychos have even had images of his mush tattooed onto their skin. In the main, they ruddy love him, ha, ha.


Just found this in The Times:

The scientist behind Sweden’s light-touch coronavirus strategy has conceded that it led to “too many” deaths, in the first admission that the choice not to impose a general lockdown could have been a mistake.

While its neighbours shut schools, restaurants and all but essential shops in early March, Sweden was the only rich European country to take a less coercive approach.

Until now it has pursued a policy of “mitigation”, permitting most schools, bars, nightclubs and virtually all other businesses to remain open, and initially allowing gatherings of up to 500 people.

Its death rate per capita has climbed to among the highest in the world, behind only Belgium, Britain, Spain and Italy. Sweden has registered 4,542 Covid-19 deaths, four times as many as Denmark, Norway and Finland combined.


Hopes that letting the virus spread through the country would swiftly create herd immunity, where the disease fades away because a majority of the population have acquired resistance, appear to have been dashed.

Other Nordic countries have begun to open their borders to each another but closed them to most Swedes.
Anders Tegnell, the Swedish chief epidemiologist responsible for the strategy, has acknowledged that the authorities did not take enough action.
“If we were to encounter the same disease again, with the precise knowledge we have of it today, I think we would end up midway between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world did,” he told Sveriges Radio.
“There is quite obviously room for improvement in what we have done in Sweden. It would be good to know exactly what to shut down to do better at hindering the spread of the virus.”
Asked whether too many people had died in the first phase of Sweden’s outbreak, Mr Tegnell said: “Yes, absolutely.” He later insisted, however, that Sweden would stick to its strategy and said that the decision to keep schools open for pupils under 16 had been vindicated by data from other countries.
The interview nonetheless marked a change in tone from a man who had previously trumpeted his “trust-based” approach, dismissed other countries’ border closures as ridiculous and was rebuked by the Italian ambassador for implying that Rome was ill-equipped to cope with the virus.
Mr Tegnell did not say what could have been done differently. His critics, however, cite failures to lock the country down, shield care homes and set up an adequate testing regime.
Rather than seeking to contain or suppress the virus by severely restricting people’s movements, Sweden’s public health authorities reasoned that the disease would spread through the population whatever action they took.
One of Mr Tegnell’s allies and predecessors compared it to an unstoppable tsunami that had to take its course.

http://**Non GDPR compliant third party tracking link removed**/2IzS8C4
Swedish officials reject the idea that they have taken a radically different path to other countries. The government closed secondary schools and universities, ordered people to keep at least 1.5 metres apart in public and eventually limited gatherings to a maximum of 49. It relied, however, on trusting individuals to follow social distancing advice and uphold their responsibility under Swedish law not to behave in ways that might spread the disease.
The results have been mixed. The number of Covid-19 deaths recorded each day has fallen from more than 100 in late April to about 50, but the daily rise in cases is continuing.
Predictions that Stockholm, the centre of the outbreak, would have herd immunity by the end of last month now seem optimistic. By the end of April only 7.3 per cent of its residents had been exposed to the disease, tests suggest.
The hospital system has coped well, however, and one poll suggested that barely one in ten Swedes distrusted Mr Tegnell’s strategy. The epidemiologist has become a folk hero in Sweden, with pop songs recorded in his honour. One man had Mr Tegnell’s face tattooed on his arm.

www.thetimes.co.uk

Light touch cost us many lives, Swedish scientist says

The scientist behind Sweden’s light-touch coronavirus strategy has conceded that it led to “too many” deaths, in the first admission that the choice not to impose a general lockdown could have been a mistake.While its neighbours shut schools, restaurants and all but essential shops in early March,
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk
 
Last edited:
T_Bone said:
SWMBO is fuming cos I didn’t stick to her list and added a few things mesel. She’s putting the shopping away right now and I can hear her stamping about and slamming cupboard doors. I usually do that with her but after her earfull she can get on with it. I’m waiting for her to start the second onslaught and will gently inform her that next week she can get the shopping hersel.😀
Click to expand...
I’m not allowed to go shopping alone :(
 
Stortford said:
Same Sis, won't be going anywhere this summer, had a big trip planned to celebrate eldest 18th and Mrs 50th but delayed that till next year and so don't have to pay balance till then, I wouldn't feel safe flying. Friends of Mrs have booked at 2 week holiday to Ibiza in July and no intention to delay it, I think they are mad.

I just hope things get clearer for eldest to go backpacking to NZ and Oz later in the year, otherwise he is going to have a pretty shitty gap year
Click to expand...
I will be letting the giunea pigs go first, if there okay l will dangle me feet in the water.
Hope your eldest does get the chance he will love it.

thecloughywobble said:
Branson's in a reet pickle, Sis, la. In the interests of fairness & balanced reporting, I should perhaps add that he's also an utter ****.
Click to expand...
Cannot abide the man, but your comments made me 😂😂😂
 
T_Bone said:
She’s got asthma and won’t/ can’t do it. I’ve done it alone for the last three months. Anyway she seems to have calmed down. I think we are off out for a walk down the beach, if she starts nagging I’ll play the deaf card.😀
Click to expand...
I once went for a hearing check, after the test the Dr said I had perfect hearing, he then asked what had prompted me to have my hearing tested in the first place, I said the Mrs has suggested it, he just laughed and said yes we get a lot of that 😂
 
Dilligaf60 said:
A collapsed spine sounds horrific mate. Whilst I hope it’s not that, if it gets you the attention you obviously desperately need then...
anyway, I’m hoping that whatever it is they can get you fixed up soon.
enjoy your time with your daughter mate. I’ve got three of them, I see two of them regularly as they live not far away, but I haven’t seen my youngest since Xmas and I miss her very much. She’s up on the west coast of Scotland just now, hopefully when and if things ease up I’ll either go up there or she can come down here. I’m just annoyed when I see these big demonstrations and packed beaches, that the people involved don’t really give a shit and are making it worse for everyone. That and a spineless government that don’t have the balls to follow or properly enforce their own restrictions.

Also marra.

Good time to have a few 45 gallon drums stashed mate.
Click to expand...
One thing everyone, as you probably know my best mate the guy who work for me are Polish ...the number of dead is just under 1000 ...he tells me that lockdown rules are very strict, with heavy fines for those breaking the rules...I know Poland is a huge country with I think around 60million population.....but the word Kris uses a lot is respect....the youth in our country think they have a god given right to do exactly what they want and mainly have zero respect....

How come we have never been given the number of deaths in Eastern Europe , embarrassed? We should be....I hate discussing politics on here, it's just a fact that not everyone knows....
Thank you everyone wishing me the best wishes, I'm not really up to thanking everyone, so I thought a general thanks is the way to go so

THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONCERNS EVERYONE
 
Last edited:
Stortford said:
Regulations and T&C's are that if they cancel flights you are entitled to a full refund, AmEx agreed with me hence refunding me. I guess you will be covered one way or other but its a complete pfaff, and farce that you are out of pocket in meantime, if the travel company go down you can claim via credit card company, I would do it that way as insurance policy will probably have an excess so won't get full amount back that way.
Click to expand...
For Section 75 CC chargebacks have you got to get written proof from the retailer that they are refusing to refund?

In the meantime Good afternoon.
And to

@becs @GlassSlippers @KarenDent @sismanhatton @Horley Chorley @Dilligaf60 @Wakey ftm in Sussex @Spam Javelin @EchoMan @mkmackem @Johnap @hank williams @Scorefrom a throw in @Wandofaleftpeg @Sunnybrow Red @thecloughywobble @VHFC @Musicman
 
T_Bone said:
SWMBO is fuming cos I didn’t stick to her list and added a few things mesel. She’s putting the shopping away right now and I can hear her stamping about and slamming cupboard doors. I usually do that with her but after her earfull she can get on with it. I’m waiting for her to start the second onslaught and will gently inform her that next week she can get the shopping hersel.😀
Click to expand...

The bairn puts things in the trolley when I'm not looking. I let her pick the stuff she eats like cereal bars and crisps for her packed lunch or she'll suggest a main meal and she puts the ingredients in, then we'll get to the till and I'll usually find a bag of Maltesers or something that she claims to know nothing about and it must have just fallen in 😂
Grumpy Old Man said:
Morning All,

Quiet at home as H & T are off to Luton for her mother's funeral. I'm staying safe at home. No rain around, but it's overcast. Today something truly silly:

Click to expand...

Morning marra. Love to H&T and hope the day goes ok for them xx
Mk Mackem said:
but the word Kris uses a lot is respect....the youth in our country think they have a god given right to do exactly what they want and mainly have zero respect....
Click to expand...

Dad noticed that over his teaching career. When he started, teachers were respected and if a child was in trouble at school, the parents were mortified and backed the teacher up. Towards the end of his career, behaviour levels were poorer and instead parents came up to the school hurling abuse at him for picking on their child.
Wakey ftm in Sussex said:
HC update

All is well, just taking a break from this madhouse ( my word not his).
Click to expand...

Pleased he's ok. I was going to message him later on if he hadn't showed up.
Rip Van Fish said:
For Section 75 CC chargebacks have you got to get written proof from the retailer that they are refusing to refund?

In the meantime Good afternoon.
And to

@becs @GlassSlippers @KarenDent @sismanhatton @Horley Chorley @Dilligaf60 @Wakey ftm in Sussex @Spam Javelin @EchoMan @mkmackem @Johnap @hank williams @Scorefrom a throw in @Wandofaleftpeg @Sunnybrow Red @thecloughywobble @VHFC @Musicman
Click to expand...

Afternoon 😎
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Stortford said:
I once went for a hearing check, after the test the Dr said I had perfect hearing, he then asked what had prompted me to have my hearing tested in the first place, I said the Mrs has suggested it, he just laughed and said yes we get a lot of that 😂
Click to expand...
That reminds me of the beginning of Captain Correlli’s Mandolin, where the old Greek fella has a pea stuck in his ear. He goes to the Doctor’s to get it removed and after a full day of being able to hear his wife perfectly, he goes back to the Doctor’s and asks him to put the pea back in 😀
 

Back
Top