Jumper on the bridge

[BlackOps]

Magical? Not really, The 136 suite.

No, see above.

If they're in their home addresses? 136 can only be used to stop someone in immediate danger to themselves.
Lot of mental health patients dont tell the truth and say they're fine or simply state that as soon as police leave theyll kill themselves. 136 is a very limited power. A 136 suite will not accept everyone

 

[West_Winger]

Sorry to hear that mate, must’ve been awful.

Not going to lie, it was pretty tough. Still can’t understand how it got to that point - and how so many others can see it as the only way out of problems. It’s a real shame.

 

[BlackOps]

In an ideal world, not a problem police responding first but on finding its anything mental health related, nothing medical, should be able to be stood down by a mental health professional within the hour...in an ideal world.

Street triage teams work well as they can stand you down whether you agree or not, any flak is on them if the wheels come off

 

[cornish mackem]

You do realise you cant section people inside their home address? 136 is very rarely used and only used for when harm is an immediate likelihood. It usually ends in that person being handcuffed. Theres the 1000s of other incidents where a 136 is not appropriate but the threat of suicide is still there

136 is used quite often, 135 not so much.

 

[safcsafc]

If they're in their home addresses? 136 can only be used to stop someone in immediate danger to themselves.
Lot of mental health patients dont tell the truth and say they're fine or simply state that as soon as police leave theyll kill themselves. 136 is a very limited power. A 136 suite will not accept everyone

I did say in circumstances such as the original post. If someone is on the bridge threatening to jump and taken off you can argue the ‘in need of immediate care or control’ element is met as is being in the interests of that person. Therefore 136 is available to police. Using street triage prevents unnecessary use of it which is what used to happen. You are wrong that 136 can only be used to stop someone in immediate danger to themselves although I get what you are saying.

In someone’s home that’s not available as you say. But there’s a load of other issues in that situation. Are they intoxicated/under the influence, are they agreeable to accepting support, do they have capacity to make that decision. What options are there for a crisis team worker to enter that home where the occupier doesn’t want them there?
I don’t think it’s as easy as saying all cases should just be passed to mental health services to deal with as if it’s only their responsibility.

Another issue is mental health services are massively under resourced/funded. It has a knock on effect in nearly all areas. At places like crisis teams, community mh teams & camhs for young people there are some great people working there, unfortunately no where near enough to cope with demand. Police shouldn’t pick up the slack for this but there will still be these difficulties even if it was full resourced, just hopefully fewer of them.

 

[The King of Um]

Your right. However if the person is under the influence of alcohol or drugs a mental health team cant assess them. This is the issue for emergency services as they're usually left with someone who has had a skinful to try and take the pain away of what their about to do.
What mental health services need to realise that if someone is willing to go to the extreme of going to the edge of suicide when under the influence they still need to take ownership in order to prevent harm.
Used to hear the sigh of relief from crisis team when you told them they were drunk 'nah sorry they need to be sober'. Used to have play down and be creative to make them out to be less drunk

Completely agree on both counts: that police need to deal with the initial situation before the EIP teams or whoever can assess and deal, but also from experience of being involved in a number of cases of either serious risk of self-harm or psychotic breakdown I'm astonished at how many deeply unwell and at-risk individuals are just returned to the streets after mental health assessment. Where, lo and behold, the same thing happens again, and the police are taken away from dealing with crimes to yet again hold the fort, and it becomes someone else's problem other than statutory health services. I'm sure it's down to pressure of resourcing on the MH teams, but it really bothers me.

(I've got nothing but good to say about all the experience I've had of seeing how police deal with this, btw).

 

[Bob Fleming]

A positive to take from a thread like this is how the responses have changed from what you would have had a few short years ago. People have a much better understanding I think - though that can come from it happening so often now.

On the question of surviving the fall I did know a fella who did it for a bet. Survived with I think a punctured lung or something. Bloke was a complete nutter mind. Dead now though.

And sadly I know people who have taken their life from there.

 

[thamesvalleyman]

Just out on my early morning run. Ran past and realised something wasn't right so stopped to check. Two young kids on bikes were there as well and were trying to contact the police as I was talking to him. I'm not trained in anything like this so it was very difficult trying to say the right thing. Just.kept telling him I've felt how he was feeling before and there is help available. Thankfully he seemed to respond and went with the police.

Do you know any updates? How is the lad?

 

[Baloo]

On the question of surviving the fall I did know a fella who did it for a bet. Survived with I think a punctured lung or something. Bloke was a complete nutter mind. Dead now though.

TH by any chance?

 

[Bob Fleming]

TH by any chance?

Aye mate. Top bloke, hard as nails and f***ing nuts. RIP.

 

[McRoker]

Do you know any updates? How is the lad?

Not really. It was reported in the echo that the police had dealt with an incident and traffic was reopened on the bridge after about 30mins. Hopefully that means he was brought back in.

 

[thamesvalleyman]

Not really. It was reported in the echo that the police had dealt with an incident and traffic was reopened on the bridge after about 30mins. Hopefully that means he was brought back in.

That's good to hear. If it was anything more sinister then it would've been reported too.

You are literally a lifesaver and have saved his family untold grief and heartache. Massive kudos to you and next time I'm up for the match I'll be happy to buy all your beers for the day.

 

[BlackOps]

136 is used quite often, 135 not so much.

Its not used that often by cops. In 5 years ive used it only 3 times. Probably same for others as well. If you hear someone sectioned you know its pretty bad

I did say in circumstances such as the original post. If someone is on the bridge threatening to jump and taken off you can argue the ‘in need of immediate care or control’ element is met as is being in the interests of that person. Therefore 136 is available to police. Using street triage prevents unnecessary use of it which is what used to happen. You are wrong that 136 can only be used to stop someone in immediate danger to themselves although I get what you are saying.

In someone’s home that’s not available as you say. But there’s a load of other issues in that situation. Are they intoxicated/under the influence, are they agreeable to accepting support, do they have capacity to make that decision. What options are there for a crisis team worker to enter that home where the occupier doesn’t want them there?
I don’t think it’s as easy as saying all cases should just be passed to mental health services to deal with as if it’s only their responsibility.

Another issue is mental health services are massively under resourced/funded. It has a knock on effect in nearly all areas. At places like crisis teams, community mh teams & camhs for young people there are some great people working there, unfortunately no where near enough to cope with demand. Police shouldn’t pick up the slack for this but there will still be these difficulties even if it was full resourced, just hopefully fewer of them.

It should only be their responsibility in ideal world. Thats what people are saying. It should be the situation where within an hour of police attendance and safe to do so, mental health professional is on scene. It would take millions of investment.

I did say in circumstances such as the original post. If someone is on the bridge threatening to jump and taken off you can argue the ‘in need of immediate care or control’ element is met as is being in the interests of that person. Therefore 136 is available to police. Using street triage prevents unnecessary use of it which is what used to happen. You are wrong that 136 can only be used to stop someone in immediate danger to themselves although I get what you are saying.

In someone’s home that’s not available as you say. But there’s a load of other issues in that situation. Are they intoxicated/under the influence, are they agreeable to accepting support, do they have capacity to make that decision. What options are there for a crisis team worker to enter that home where the occupier doesn’t want them there?
I don’t think it’s as easy as saying all cases should just be passed to mental health services to deal with as if it’s only their responsibility.

Another issue is mental health services are massively under resourced/funded. It has a knock on effect in nearly all areas. At places like crisis teams, community mh teams & camhs for young people there are some great people working there, unfortunately no where near enough to cope with demand. Police shouldn’t pick up the slack for this but there will still be these difficulties even if it was full resourced, just hopefully fewer of them.

Lets put it this way. Ive been in the situation where subject is sober, having a mental crisis, has no friends or family and is stating that when/if police leave they will harm themselves, around 20 times more than ive used 136. This has usually occurred through the night where there is no street triage and subject is not willing to go to a unit. No response from crisis team and have left 2-3 voicemails. Eventually get through where its a ball ache to get them to believe you that they're not pissed. Many a time this has taken 4+ hours. Some subjects, weve even had a cuppa while waiting. That is not good enough.
Staff at the units have usually been brilliant. This is not from what ive heard but from experience and its not good enough basically. I think we all know that.

 

[Baloo]

Aye mate. Top bloke, hard as nails and f***ing nuts. RIP.

Thought it would be Can remember my old man telling me the story when I was a kid.

 

[cornish mackem]

A positive to take from a thread like this is how the responses have changed from what you would have had a few short years ago. People have a much better understanding I think - though that can come from it happening so often now.

On the question of surviving the fall I did know a fella who did it for a bet. Survived with I think a punctured lung or something. Bloke was a complete nutter mind. Dead now though.

And sadly I know people who have taken their life from there.

We have a landmark near us where there’s been a few in recent years. Young lads and it’s not very easy to get too as it’s a railway viaduct.
I might get pelters here but I would suggest that most people on wearmouth bridge have no intention of actually going over the side
Didn’t @Wearside Wanderer II say upto 12/week but thankfully the numbers ( although a worry ) are a small proportion of those.
it’s a busy bit of road and lots of chances to be seen.
It’s tragic however that someone feels bad enough that the way they think to get support is doing what they do.
A worrying stat I got the other day, 75% of people how take their own life have tried to access services upto 48hrs before they achieve suicide.

 

[Jon Dough]

You do realise you cant section people inside their home address? 136 is very rarely used and only used for when harm is an immediate likelihood. It usually ends in that person being handcuffed. Theres the 1000s of other incidents where a 136 is not appropriate but the threat of suicide is still there

There was a guy in South hylton, he has bad mental health issues, often posts online how depressed he is. Couple of weeks ago posted he was going to kill himself, police were at his door VERY quickly as someone phoned, the next day he posted video taken from his CCTV of the police handcuffing him to protect him from himself.

 

[rudd]

Surely that would be a natural trend for any training?

Only if the training is needed.

Its not used that often by cops. In 5 years ive used it only 3 times. Probably same for others as well. If you hear someone sectioned you know its pretty bad


It should only be their responsibility in ideal world. Thats what people are saying. It should be the situation where within an hour of police attendance and safe to do so, mental health professional is on scene. It would take millions of investment.


Lets put it this way. Ive been in the situation where subject is sober, having a mental crisis, has no friends or family and is stating that when/if police leave they will harm themselves, around 20 times more than ive used 136. This has usually occurred through the night where there is no street triage and subject is not willing to go to a unit. No response from crisis team and have left 2-3 voicemails. Eventually get through where its a ball ache to get them to believe you that they're not pissed. Many a time this has taken 4+ hours. Some subjects, weve even had a cuppa while waiting. That is not good enough.
Staff at the units have usually been brilliant. This is not from what ive heard but from experience and its not good enough basically. I think we all know that.

Of course it's not good enough, it's what happens when a blue light service refers to a service that isn't classed as an emergency service. Most crisis teams are commissioned with a 4 hour response as a target, some don't even run 24 hours a day and are commissioned to respond within 24 hours which is scary.
Things are undoubtedly getting better but there's much room for improvement. I remember the days when people could be waiting with police in 136 suites for 6-10 hours for a crisis or MHA assessment whilst desk sergeants (I think?) were constantly on the phone trying to get their officers to stand down, when the law says they can't. It was scandalous from both health and police.
The north east has the best rated mental health trust in the country but there's still huge improvements that could be made. I've always thought an element of the crisis team should be a blue light service but that will cost huge amounts of money to commision and run and there isn't enough staff to run services already.

 

[Jap Stammer]

There was a guy in South hylton, he has bad mental health issues, often posts online how depressed he is. Couple of weeks ago posted he was going to kill himself, police were at his door VERY quickly as someone phoned, the next day he posted video taken from his CCTV of the police handcuffing him to protect him from himself.

PA?

 

[Jon Dough]

PA?

Yup.

 

[Jap Stammer]

The availability and acceptance of casual drug taking has multiplied the problem.

Definitely was the case with our eldest lad - threatened to kill himself many times, usually when he was coming down from a three- or four-day cocaine bender.

We tried to get him to get help but he preferred listening to his arsehole mates. He's now estranged from us, the rest of his family, his ex-girlfriend and their daughter.

After about the fifth occurrence, we simply got fed up of cashing in Bonds, selling cars, clearing our savings accounts, and taking out loans to pay of the debts he had accrued to loan sharks, payday lenders, logbook lenders and drug dealers. His own mother actually asked him to leave the house and not return until his life was in order.

He still owes us, and his last remaining Grandparent, thousands of pounds and we have about as much chance of seeing that repaid as we do of ever seeing our granddaughter and the new one that is on the way by a different girlfriend (whose name we only found about from a swiftly-deleted post on his brother's Facebook page which also contained a photograph of a pregnancy scan).

A whole life wasted because of the increased availabilty of the likes of cocaine, and his inability to resist taking it to excess.