Judgement day for our model


I think you can tbh. I think in general it's a good model. Get a good recruitment team, sign good young players, sell them for profit, get better young players and eventually make money whilst going up. It makes sense. I wouldn't want a manager to get full reign instead. But ultimately we do have to go up. If Clarke joins Stewart and amad (who I know wasn't ours) in leaving the club then the model needs to involve progressing. Either buying someone ready to contribute, or having someone already here ready to step up.

That's my concern, because no Amad or Stewart replacement has looked remotely close to doing that and trying to replace Clarke on top of that will be a huge ask. At some point the model needs to lead to a top 2 championship side, and I'm not seeing it right now. Far too early to panic mind, but I agree that the next coach needs to be a success

For me a lot will hinge on the next two windows as we now have the Ross Stewart money and i think we are all resigned to losing Clarke in the summer if not earlier, but also for big money.

The level of re-investment will tell us all we need to know about our ownership and their intentions, imo.
 
In some ways the justification of the model would be stronger if the next head coach fails. Part of the benefit of the model is that the transition should be easier and having one manager who doesn't work out doesn't mean ripping everything up and starting again.
 
Both Alex Neil and Tony Mowbray are typical bog standard championship managers who like full control of the club they are managing. But let's be honest Mowbray has had a checked past with clubs and Neil jumped ship to Stoke where he bought loads of championship experienced players (cos thats what he wanted) and has died a death. Did the 'Model ' fit them, NO, but in reality if we had given them free reign here would the club be a stronger position now...I don't think so...
 
Both Alex Neil and Tony Mowbray are typical bog standard championship managers who like full control of the club they are managing. But let's be honest Mowbray has had a checked past with clubs and Neil jumped ship to Stoke where he bought loads of championship experienced players (cos thats what he wanted) and has died a death. Did the 'Model ' fit them, NO, but in reality if we had given them free reign here would the club be a stronger position now...I don't think so...
I don't think anyone is saying give the the manager a free reign.
 
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In some ways the justification of the model would be stronger if the next head coach fails. Part of the benefit of the model is that the transition should be easier and having one manager who doesn't work out doesn't mean ripping everything up and starting again.
Is that not a double edged sword though? It the next head coach fails then questions have to be raised about recruitment of the players and also the coach?
 
I feel this next appointment is crucial for their model .
Successful then happy days
Unsuccessful then major questions will be asked from a lot of our fanbase to regarding the direction of this model they are adopting

The next appointment is always crucial for any club.

The model is unashamedly long term. There are potential short term pitfalls to it, which include (1) developing players need time to develop. (2) Even when they're good, young players are notoriously inconsistent. We've hit these bumps in the road, plus the league is much more competitive this season.

Even if it goes tits up, that would not necessarily mean the model is not right way to go. We'd have to question whether it was a failure of implementation, and therefore the people who were implementing it - recruitment and coaching.

But I'm positive about the direction we are going, and agree with essex boy's post below, as do so many others.

I would not agree. Since 2021, under the model we have
Got out of league one,
Got in the play offs in the Championship
Sold a player for 10m
Developed a playing squad worth circa 100m
Gained many plaudits for our style of play
Enticed record average home attendances
Academy has progressed

This tells me the model is working especially in light of KLD saying it was a 5 year plan to get to the Prem

Great post, marra.
 
Bringing in a few good experienced leaders will benefit the model.
I would not agree. Since 2021, under the model we have
Got out of league one,
Got in the play offs in the Championship
Sold a player for 10m
Developed a playing squad worth circa 100m
Gained many plaudits for our style of play
Enticed record average home attendances
Academy has progressed

This tells me the model is working especially in light of KLD saying it was a 5 year plan to get to the Prem
And the current model seems to have platued.
We now need players with the now how and experience to kick us on.
 
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How many goals have our young strikers scored over the last season and a half as a starter?
So thay undoes all the previous 2 years of progress and deemed that as now a failure aye?

I'd also like to see the strikers in a different system and not pass to clarke ball before completely writing them off.
 
Whilst the football is largely entertaining and we aren't in danger of relegation there is quite a lot of good will towards the owner. We all know where we have been a season and a half ago so there remains an element of relief.

Speakman like all figures behind the scenes will just have to suck criticism up - traditionally it's the manage who bears the brunt of transfer shortcomings, that's his job so he will be criticised. This time we are losing a popular manager who has done an objectively good job with some issues so feelings are still raw.

Most of us can see where the squad is lacking, I certainly feel that recruitment has effectively ignored these. I hope the four strikers do come good and I am wrong about them. I don't know what to say about a defensive midfielder.

The reality of a 5 year plan for promotion has at least two issues. The first presented last season, what if we get a chance for promotion earlier? The owner didn't push that, they would have replaced Stewart in January otherwise.

In reality, how happy are supporters with holding our breath, and judgement until the timetable aligns with expectation? Are we really happt to linger here until around 2027?

I want us to win every game and, whilst I am no fan of the Premier League, I want Sunderland in the top division.

We weren't in at the start of the Premier League, the next big change is imminent with clubs or leagues soon likely to take over tv streaming rights for themselves. If we are off the pace then, we will get left behind as there is already a massive gap between the parachute payment clubs and the rest.

The next appointment does need to deliver results, we can't be their tester kit.
 
The next appointment is always crucial for any club.

The model is unashamedly long term. There are potential short term pitfalls to it, which include (1) developing players need time to develop. (2) Even when they're good, young players are notoriously inconsistent. We've hit these bumps in the road, plus the league is much more competitive this season.

Even if it goes tits up, that would not necessarily mean the model is not right way to go. We'd have to question whether it was a failure of implementation, and therefore the people who were implementing it - recruitment and coaching.

But I'm positive about the direction we are going, and agree with essex boy's post below, as do so many others.



Great post, marra.
The problem with the model as is, is contained in your pitfall comments. Firstly, young players need time to develop. I agree. But overloading them into the first team early as we have had to do means, in effect, you have a large part of the team under-developed and unprepared for Championship football. This is particularly true of the forwards we have brought in this season. Secondly, you mention the inconsistency of young players in general and ours certainly fit this descriptor. Given those combinations added to which there have been active moves to get rid of older, experienced players, is it any wonder we are struggling at present?
 
Bringing in a few good experienced leaders will benefit the model.

And the current model seems to have platued.
We now need players with the now how and experience to kick us on.

On the basis we are only 19 games into a new season, 3 points off where we finished last season, I do not concur with your viewpoint. I believe an issue has been identified at a managerial level which the board are now rectifying. To me a plateau can only be judged after two seasons or so. As fans, myself included, we want instant success fuelled by those clubs who due to their financial backing can achieve what most clubs cannot in a very short period of time. It can distort the reality for the rest
 
I would not agree. Since 2021, under the model we have
Got out of league one,
Got in the play offs in the Championship
Sold a player for 10m
Developed a playing squad worth circa 100m
Gained many plaudits for our style of play
Enticed record average home attendances
Academy has progressed

This tells me the model is working especially in light of KLD saying it was a 5 year plan to get to the Prem
Our old model produced the future Liverpool captain and england no 1 goal keeper, 10 consecutive premier league seasons, 6 derby wins in a row and a league cup final.
 
So thay undoes all the previous 2 years of progress and deemed that as now a failure aye?

I'd also like to see the strikers in a different system and not pass to clarke ball before completely writing them off.
How many signings from abroad have come off and been first team regulars? There's another.
 

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