JFK - 60 years on



Tony Mowbray's Ma would remember.
I've asked the question on the football thread if anyone knew what time Mowbray was born, i suppose only he would know that (must have been told)
I wonder if it was 18.30-19.00 UK time.
Has there ever been a proper TV debate with a panel of experts (maybe a couple who think it was Oswald and a couple who don't) discussing all of the facts surrounding the day and the whole situation?

For example the Oliver Stone film brings up a whole host of things why Oswald couldn't have done it, including he was a lousy shot and the bolt action rifle couldn't have been cocked twice in the timeframe the assassination occurred.
What about the magic bullet and "back and to the left"?
The convenience of Jack Ruby being allowed so close to him.
The umbrella man etc etc..
 
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Peter Gabriel also wrote a song about it which captures it brilliantly - ‘Family Snapshot’ - from Oswald’s view. Only problem is Oswald had nowt directly to do with the shots.

The streets are lined with camera crews
Everywhere he goes is news
Today is different
Today is not the same
Today I make the action
Take snapshot into the light, snapshot into the light
I'm shooting into the light

Four miles down the cavalcade moves on
Driving into the sun
If I worked it out right
They won't see me or the gun

Two miles to go, they're clearing the road
The cheering has really begun
I've got my radio
I can hear what's going on

I've been waiting for this
I have been waiting for this
All you people in TV land
I will wake up your empty shells
Peak-time viewing blown in a flash
As I burn into your memory cells
'Cause I'm alive

They're coming 'round the corner with the bikers at the front
I'm wiping the sweat from my eyes
It's a matter of time
It's a matter of will
And the governor's car is not far behind
He's not the one I've got in mind
'cause there he is-the man of the hour, standing in the limousine
I don't really hate you
I don't care what you do
We were made for each other
Me and you
I want to be somebody
You were like that too
If you don't get given you learn to take
And I will take you."

Holding my breath
Release the catch
And I let the bullet fly

All turned quiet-I have been here before
Lonely boy hiding behind the front door
Friends have all gone home
There's my toy gun on the floor
Come back Mum and Dad
You're growing apart
You know that I'm growing up sad
I need some attention
I shoot into the light

Oliver Stone’s ‘JFK’ paints in broad strokes but makes the case for me that it was the MIC responsible ultimately. He did a follow up documentary recently ‘Beyond JFK’ or something which goes into more detail. As they say in the film regardless of who was subcontracted to do the actual deed, only the clandestine government would have the authority to change the parade route, to manufacture multiple LHOs, to interfere with the autopsy, to infiltrate the Warren Report, Within days of LBJs swearing in we had troop escalations in Vietnam and ten more years of (unwinnable) war.
 
Why do you think that? Kennedy was reasonably soft on Russia so what would the KGB have to gain?

Something more about it than what it seems mind, but the KGB seem unlikely. Umbrella man and the Cuban looking feller making a of signal just as the car past them possibly indicate more than one shooter though.

I'm almost certain that most of the secrecy around it though is because the Sectet Service and FBI fucked up badly and didn't people to see the absolute clusterfuck that allowed Oswald to get close enough to shoot the president. That or they suspected or knew that Rogue Soviet elements and/or Castro were involved somehow and didn't want to start ww3.
Just the fact he’d defected to the Russians. Always found it fishy the story around them rejecting him then all of a sudden he being kept in a mental hospital.
 
Playing evening 5 a side in the gym at grammar school in Gateshead. Remember it well. Local artist was obsessed with JFK and his portraits started appearing in shops and art galleries. I think they're sort after now by collectors.
 
I’d just finished my engineering night class at West Park College next to Park Lane and the bus station was buzzing with the news. I couldn’t believe it, and was stunned to hear it was true when I got home to Town End Farm and confirmed John F Kennedy had been assassinated in Dallas,Texas.
Reflecting now on that evening 60 years ago and what I’ve done, learned and experienced in that time since.
Wow!
 
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I think Oliver Stone has done a new documentary including extra evidence that’s came to light since his first one.
I read last week about a European Barron who was a cIA agent who befriended LHO and whose wife had been in business with Zapruder in the 50s. How’s that for coincidence? He was a marra of Bush Sr who when top lad at the CIA told him he had nowt to worry about concerning the upcoming late 70s congressional investigation into the affair.

It the US’s Jack The Ripper isn’t it? An ongoing earner for a lot of people every once in awhile.
 
I think Oliver Stone has done a new documentary including extra evidence that’s came to light since his first one.
I read last week about a European Barron who was a cIA agent who befriended LHO and whose wife had been in business with Zapruder in the 50s. How’s that for coincidence? He was a marra of Bush Sr who when top lad at the CIA told him he had nowt to worry about concerning the upcoming late 70s congressional investigation into the affair.

It the US’s Jack The Ripper isn’t it? An ongoing earner for a lot of people every once in awhile.
George de Mohrenschildt?

 
So who do you think was to blame? Castro? The Russians? The CIA? Trump?

Now that's a question.
Elements within the CIA / FBI for me.
What is without doubt is that they had decided it was Oswald before any investigation had even started. The following day J Edgar Hoover told Lyndon Johnson it was important that the public believed is it LHO and LHO alone.

The subsequent investigation (headed by Allan Dulles who Kennedy had previously fired) had the predetermined outcome it would be LHO. Any evidence that suggested otherwise was filed away and not pursued.

Kennedy was a pain in the ass for the establishment, he was doing things differently, he wanted out of Vietnam, was going after the mob via Bobby and had a less confrontational approach with Moscow - all red lines for those 5 star generals with connections to big business.
 
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22nd November 1963 when he was assassinated.

There’s got to be a few on here who can answer the ultimate question “where were you when …?”

I was only 17 months old so got zero recollection of it.
I was minus 8.

My mam says she was listening to Radio Luxemburg with my dad in my grandma's living room so i suppose thats where my proto egg was.
 
I think so. Last week was the first I’d heard of him. The thing I read was on the internet so I can’t speak for its facts but he seemed a bit dubious. Mind all mentioned in the whole affair do anarl.
I’ve heard of that bloke he’s mentioned a lot in the JFK assassination materials. White Russian expat right wing nutter in the Dallas community with some very dodgy connections in the clandestine world. How would a big shot like him befriend a dropout loser drifter like Oswald or it wasn’t due to dodgy machinations?
 
Oliver Stone’s ‘JFK’ paints in broad strokes but makes the case for me that it was the MIC responsible ultimately. He did a follow up documentary recently ‘Beyond JFK’ or something which goes into more detail. As they say in the film regardless of who was subcontracted to do the actual deed, only the clandestine government would have the authority to change the parade route, to manufacture multiple LHOs, to interfere with the autopsy, to infiltrate the Warren Report, Within days of LBJs swearing in we had troop escalations in Vietnam and ten more years of (unwinnable) war.
As it happens, the parade route wasn’t changed. It had always been planned to take that route. One of the papers, who had previously printed detailed maps correctly, printed a seemingly incorrect version one day, and that is the map that is used in the film.
 
As it happens, the parade route wasn’t changed. It had always been planned to take that route. One of the papers, who had previously printed detailed maps correctly, printed a seemingly incorrect version one day, and that is the map that is used in the film.
Well in any event it was largely agreed that the parade could have taken a 90 degree left turn onto the freeway from Elm Street but instead went past that turn then had to make a very sharp acute left turn and have to slow down to snail’s pace to do so (right in front of the book depository and grassy knoll). This was agreed to have been a suicide move for any motorcade but the route was approved by the mayor of Dallas Earle Cabell who was the brother of deputy CIA director Charles Cabell. JFK had famously said after the Bay of Pigs debacle that he would smash the CIA into a thousand pieces.

Of course these could all just be coincidences but all very tidy don’t you think?
 
Well in any event it was largely agreed that the parade could have taken a 90 degree left turn onto the freeway from Elm Street but instead went past that turn then had to make a very sharp acute left turn and have to slow down to snail’s pace to do so (right in front of the book depository and grassy knoll). This was agreed to have been a suicide move for any motorcade but the route was approved by the mayor of Dallas Earle Cabell who was the brother of deputy CIA director Charles Cabell. JFK had famously said after the Bay of Pigs debacle that he would smash the CIA into a thousand pieces.

Of course these could all just be coincidences but all very tidy don’t you think?
I’ve always thought there was a possibility for more to be at play here than the official version suggests. I’ve just no idea what.

The accounts of war veterans near the grassy knoll that instinctively took cover when they heard, not the bang of a gun, but the crack of a bullet splitting the air passing by them always had an impact on me.

On the other hand ‘The Death of a President’ by William Manchester, written at the request of the Kennedy family, cleared up some points that I thought suggested a conspiracy.

I’m basically saying I dunno.
 

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